Toxic relationship with family/dealing

[swmorse]

I can’t offer any more suggestions than what’s already been said

I will send you a virtual hug. Sorry for all the shit you’re going thru

One thing I will echo. Don’t let them be around you. If your property is fenced put a lock on the gate and lock them out.

If they come over and they don’t leave call the cops and treat them as trespassers. If they get locked up oh well, so sad (for them).

They aren’t your family, they lost that privilege long ago. Even if a therapist tells you to allow them back into your life, don’t do it.

I give people the benefit of the doubt a few times but when I’m done I’m done for good. F them

Sending you love hope you get thru this

[Paisley_Pony]

I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I grew up in a very toxic family, with a rageaholic father and an enabling mother. I became anorexic during my late teen years. At my lowest point, Jesus showed me that he made me and I was of value, that he loved me, and that he was nothing like my father (who used religion as a weapon).

Removing the dangerous people from your life is absolutely essential. If they are unwilling to change, they must not be allowed the privilege of being in your life. Do not open the door to them, literally or figuratively.

You are not alone!

[Libby2563]

I’m so sorry for what your family has put you through, OP (and others who have shared your experiences on here). You are stronger than you give yourself credit for, just to have overcome that childhood and made it to this point in life. They are trying to pull you back down into their pit of dysfunction but I’m confident that you can continue to rise above.

I hope you can get into therapy again soon. As far as band aids, I have heard good things about the book Lifeskills for Adult Children. From the Amazon blurb:

In a functional family the adults teach younger members the skills they need to “do life”. In a dysfunctional family those skills were never learned.

Woititz and Garner teach you the skills you need to make life work including how to:

• meet people and make friends.
• identify your feelings and express them.
• set up boundaries and defend them.
• work out your problems with others.
• handle criticism.
• end visits, conversations or relationships.

I’m thinking the set boundaries and end visits components might be especially useful to you.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@trainer_Xalter

I want to have a loving relationship with my family. They never say I love you, none of them. I have love for all of them and I want so badly to have the kind of family I see other people have that is nurturing and encouraging and safe solace and I try to paint them as that and pretended for some years but it’s not working anymore and I’m just bitter and angry and so tired of feeling so terrible about myself when they rear their ugly heads into my peaceful, functional world.

You just can’t. I am so sorry for you. Hugs, big hugs. I have been in your shoes, going to gloss over this…but, a therapist once told me “your mother may never be the kind of mother you think you need”. I didn’t want to, wasn’t ready, to hear it then. But I understand it now. My younger sister tho, can’t seem to get this and accept it. Our mother is very ill, has been for quite awhile. My sister has chosen the “way to get mom to like/love/accept me” is to be the whipping girl. Always there for her, bend over backwards, take all the abuse, do everything she wants…etc. My choice was to walk away and not come back. Little to no communication. Basically, acknowledging what that therapist told me all those years ago.
Guess who’s doing better emotionally? Yes, me.

Point is… you’re going to have to make a choice and stick it out. Your family is going to throw a fit. They are used to you being their whipping child. Take a deep breath. Go on with your life. Do something you enjoy. Get out of your own head. You have to. Find other ways to nurture and develop loving relationships.
Hang in there.

[SporthorseFun]

@trainer_Xalter

I want to have a loving relationship with my family. They never say I love you, none of them. I have love for all of them and I want so badly to have the kind of family I see other people have that is nurturing and encouraging and safe solace and I try to paint them as that and pretended for some years but it’s not working anymore and I’m just bitter and angry and so tired of feeling so terrible about myself when they rear their ugly heads into my peaceful, functional world.

What would you do? Therapy of course but it is prohibitively expensive and I have no kind of time. I just need someone to talk it out with.

@trainer_Xalter

Seeking advice.

I am mid to late 40s, youngest, parents still married in their mid 70s. No grandkids, sister is married. We all live within a 2hr radius of each other.

My father abused me (beatings and verbal/emotional/rage outlet/punching bag) my whole life but it got 10x worse when my sister left for college and I hit puberty. I have a rebellious streak and a smart mouth but I was a generally good kid. Good grades, As and Bs, no trouble at school, no police interactions, no breaking curfew even. I did chores every week, a whole list, and I did a good job. I talked back, wore a lot of black clothes and skull jewelry, and hung out with boys with long hair. My mother and my sister received a fraction of the abuse I got from him, I was the target, and they did not defend me. They blamed me as well, that I was bad, I needed to apologize, I needed to change my behavior, I made him angry, I pushed him too far. He, with their help, groomed me for being the victim of male abusers. The message was sometimes men who love you are going to abuse you because you deserve it. After a lot of poor experiences with men, I am committed single now, last 8 years. The common theme throughout my life is they brand me as extra sensitive and I feel things stronger then normal. I overheard my sister say I was the posted child for untreated mental illness. I should mention all 3 of them are taking Rx for depression/anxiety etc etc. I’m pretty introverted and I’m ok with that, I really like being alone, but the other view of that is withdrawn and antisocial. I tolerate a lot of bad behavior towards myself because I lack the necessary judgement to determine what appropriate boundaries are. And once we are way past that I suffer from bouts of rage that seem to come out of no where/overreacting etc because I am so tired and angry. I was just a KID, it was wrong and I wish I fought back, back then.

I spent a lot of time away from them as soon as I graduated HS, years, really didn’t reconnect until my mid-30s. I guess I thought surely now I was successful enough to come back and be accepted. I apologized profusely for all the trouble I caused them by being a family pariah. Father called me the prodigal child. I dropped out of college so I’m a failure there too. Mother has never stopped dispensing back to school and career change advice. I have supported myself since I was 19 years old. I started my own biz in 2002 and it’s been my sole income source since 2003. I’m not rich but I have no debt other then the mortgage which is 19 years in good standing. I have never asked them or anyone else for money. I’m an upstanding, contributing member of my community, with excellent references and I am established in my line of business. It’s very disorienting to me to go back “home” and be treated the way they treat me. Like I am an idiot that knows nothing. Everything I say is met with suspicion or denial, even answers to direct questions, even when my profession becomes the subject of discussion.

Father has addressed his abuse to me only once. When I was lamenting a current adolescent dog’s challenging behavior problem, he suggested I knock him around a little bit. I, aghast, said you don’t ever beat a dog. He said it worked with you. I said well maybe that’s why I’m such a mess. He laughed.

I want to have a loving relationship with my family. They never say I love you, none of them. I have love for all of them and I want so badly to have the kind of family I see other people have that is nurturing and encouraging and safe solace and I try to paint them as that and pretended for some years but it’s not working anymore and I’m just bitter and angry and so tired of feeling so terrible about myself when they rear their ugly heads into my peaceful, functional world.

What would you do? Therapy of course but it is prohibitively expensive and I have no kind of time. I just need someone to talk it out with.

I am sorry sorry to hear about this Trainer_Xalter. I am not an expert, so this is just something for you to consider. I have not read all of the other posts but want to reiterate what Scribbler has said. I don’t know that your family has the ability to give you the love you seek, and this is because of their way of handling things. It is not because of you. It could be you are the family scapegoat, and in this dynamic, you may very well be the above-average family member.

If you are able to get any counseling, you have to make sure the therapist has specialized training in trauma. Trauma is a field that not every therapist wants to get into - it takes more education, and the work is hard. People who do this specialized work are sometimes called to help people just like you who are suffering. This will be immensely helpful to you in having validation and a way to move forward. Again, I could be completely wrong as I as not an expert. I have just seen this situation where one person carried the weight of the family very unfairly. You are independent, and you are successful. I want to encourage you to keep looking for answers.

[Spudsmyguy]

If worse comes to worst, you may have to take out a restraining order on him/them if they insist on coming even when you told them they are not welcome. Hugs to you Trainer_Xalter.

[JanM]

They were supposed to love and raise you with kindness, but they are incapable of that. You owe them nothing, not money, your time, a place to visit or live, and certainly not to take care of them when they need it. That’s what assisted living is for.

Don’t think that families that look good from the outsider’s view are actually anything like they seem.

Think about what you’ll say when the day comes that they want something from you. Or other people butt in, and say it’s your duty to take care of or fianance them. In my case my answer would be, “I give as much time to them as they gave to me, which is zero”. To the second group, you care so much you take care of them. I will never again feel as if I have to do anything for any of them.

[BrendaJane]

many hugs to you.

a) you will always be the kid. No matter what, for better or worse.

B) some families just don’t work out.

I dearly love my parents, and I talk daily with my mom, but I dreaded calls from my dad. He always found something to pick on, I should be doing or not in his mind, but he would not consider my reasons for stalling. I just wish I could have had a ‘regular’ sesson on the phone with him now and then, talk about regular stuff, like, oh, a family friend/relative is having a baby. Nope. it was ‘I can’t talk with you, they are here with the baby.’ Yes, I got cut off in a long distance call in less than a minute!
Sadly my dad passed away last October. He was not a bad guy, just did not know how to articulate feelings.

However, other family is a pain. When certain things pop up, my husband is near tears at how his father put him behind a known liar cheater and thief, ‘Son, you don’t know what you are talking about’ when he damn well did. My FIL would not consider that until the day he died.
We pretty much do our own thing, although we live less than 30 minutes away from everybody. Keep it noncommittal.

I guess your family is used to running roughshot over you, so they do not respect your bounbdaries or house rules. ‘If you can’t control your dog, he has to stay home, or tied up outside’

Visit them for short times, have a cup of coffee and ‘sorry gotta run’

But ideally, get distance between you and them.
3 hour time difference works wonders.

I don’t know if it is you, but reading your pain, I doubt it.
Many hugs to you. dysfunctional families suck.

[shiloh]

I am probably repeating what others have said here but

Get the hell out. Get rid of them. You don’t need their toxic crap. You are never going to have a loving relationship with them because they need to have someone to be their whipping boy. You need to start having a loving relationship with YOURSELF first. And that means tearing the target off your forehead and taking the kick me sign off your ass. That they put there. It’s kind of like waking up every day and having a big ol’ bite of a poisoned apple - that you know is poisoned. Don’t accept their crap. They have no boundaries but YOU have to.

My mother used to beat the living crap out of me and while she did it tell me that I was not being hurt, that what she was doing didn’t hurt me and that that no-one was hurting me. And she did not hold back - punching, kicking, yanking my hair out, scratching my face, choking me - you name it she did it. Keep that in mind: Years later she was trying to claim that my father had “abused” my brother (he didn’t) by calling him “bubba”. I told her that was not abuse and when she screamed at me that it was I objected by asking what she thought what she did to me was. She sneered at me and told me that I had gotten a few “little spankings.” But then followed it by giving her fake merry laugh and saying “Oh we could beat you and beat you and you never changed.” I hung up on her. Is it any wonder I never speak to her or my brother. It took a long time to realize I was never, ever going to gain their approval or love. That the only value I had to them was as a punching bag and a place to drop all their mistakes. Every single stupid thing they did got co-opted onto me. No more. Bye bye.

Walk away. Yeah, you may get flak from your family - but how is that any different than what you are being subjected to right now? They want to continue to make you the bad guy - what’s the difference. They have already labelled you. Walking away means you reject them and their crap. Don’t worry - nature abhors a vacuum and they will soon fill it with someone else.

[EmilyM]

I just came to say how I am so impressed with how magnanimous you are. You are so kind to try to love your family who don’t sound very nice. You have incredible insight into yourself and them.

I am not sure how best to help you but I’m not big on therapy but started Betterhelp (betterhelp.com) during the pandemic. I needed someone not in my real life to just vent to. It has helped me set boundaries w people in my life to protect myself. I would never have imagined it would be helpful. It’s $80 per week which you pay in a monthly sum ($320) and I talk to a real person on the phone every week. So $80 a session. Pretty inexpensive therapy. I’ve never checked on insurance to see if it’s covered but perhaps that is an option.

[shiloh]

I think I am going to copy and paste this whole thread. So much wisdom here and advice.

I have PTSD (from the way I was raised) and have only recently come to realize that my re-living those old experiences over and over again trying to understand them was making my PTSD worse.

And that’s another thing, OP - Stop trying to figure out why they are they way they are. They just are the way they are. And see no reason to change. So YOU have to.

[JanM]

I knew a very wise man who spent his work career in Management Employee Relations, pretty much the complaint department for that agency. Something came up at work, and we were talking to him about it, and he said never try to figure out why someone does what they do. Often times, they don’t know why they did something. It’s just the way they are. You can’t change someone, so stop trying.

You will never be enough to please them. Stop trying to get them to care about you, because they simply aren’t capable of that.

You are enough. You deserve to be loved and cherished for the unique person you are, and they will never see that. Make your own family of people who care about you, and put people who are only related to you by an accident of nature out of your mind.

[hoopoe]

I am heartened by the amazing and loving support here.

To the OP is you are near a Metro area you might see if your Planned Parenthood offers mental health counselling. Many do. There may also be a women’s health center who can offer services or even a support group at a more nominal charge.

and don’t forget religious and community groups. Check out Universal Unitarianism, it is a spiritual group which welcomes persons of all belief from atheist to devout religious.

It is a community of love and support for betterment of others and self

[trainer_Xalter]

@shiloh

I have PTSD (from the way I was raised) and have only recently come to realize that my re-living those old experiences over and over again trying to understand them was making my PTSD worse.

Yeah I think that’s where we’re at. Trying to sift through to determine if I am overreacting or justified is prob making things worse for myself.

Someone much earlier in the thread mentioned the need to stop caring. I am familiar with that as a watershed moment, and agree, that’s the key. Once I can tap into that I am free.

Thank you again, everyone who responded. The thought of divorcing my family is alarming but the support and kind words posted here is uplifting.

[shiloh]

It is alarming but not nearly as alarming as the abuse and torment that you have endured and will continue to endure as your family’s punching bag.

They don’t deserve another minute of your time. Start now - sooner is better than later.

[OnAMission]

I don’t know that you need to commit to “divorcing” them; I think the first stage now is to get your interactions with them back under control, on your terms. And if that means a big long break that is fine. At some point down the road you might change, nobody can see around a corner. Do the best you can for now and let the future unfold as you feel better.

I would also say that you can care about them from a safe distance while holding your boundaries. Acceptance and not caring are different things; it might help to know you have some space in the middle for those thoughts.

Hang in there!

[MunchingonHay]

@trainer_Xalter

Bottom line is there are 2 sides to every story and I may be a completely toxic person and exceptionally good at hiding that from the rest of the world but my family who REALLY know me know the secret, that I am beyond reproach.

this statement right here… This statement hurts. You are NOT a toxic person. They have convinced you, that you are not worthy and you ARE!! You are worth more. You are a strong, self-reliant person who has been able to start and grow a business. You are smart enough to ask for help.

I agree with the other posters, talking with someone and cutting off all contact with them is the best thing for YOU.

[peedin]

If you feel you have PTSD, and you do given the trauma you have endured, seek out an EMDR therapist. I saw one weekly for 3 years and it has helped me become a new person. I’ve stopped hating myself, have figured out my role in the family, have let go of anger. It cost money and time but it has been worth it. I turned my life around at age 64.

[Gesaffelstein]

I had to stop reading because it was triggering.

I wish you well.

Stop all contact. Protect yourself. 1st and always.

No is a complete sentence. Listen to your dog.

[Graymaresrule]

Their insistence on a visit is still bullying. You have every right to say no. Which I believe you should do as many times as needed.

If you are concerned that they might just show up I suggest a Ring doorbell.