Who’s the “they”? You mean stewards? Racing commissions? Churchill and Pimlico are in different states so those are different people.
And what is the Stronach two’fer. If you are refering to the Santa Anita and Pimlico deaths, the tracks are 3000 miles apart and the circumstances are entirely different. (One was in the morning, the other in the afternoon, one was a broken shoulder and the other probably a cardiac issue; one was an unraced gelding and the other a stakes filly etc etc)
???
It didn’t even get out of the 70s yesterday. Cal runs a clean barn, are you insinuating that he gave a stake horse with value as a future broodmare drugs that caused her to have a heart attack?
“Start banning owners and trainers” - they already ban whomever they please. You are ill-informed.
The winner, Covfefe, ran lights OUT. I’ve never seen anything like that. That was a freak race. The track is not particularly fast this year, either.
From The New York Times –
…
At Santa Anita Park in Southern California, a 3-year-old gelding named Commander Coil became the 24th fatality at the racetrack since Dec. 26, a turn of events that already had suspended racing at the legendary track twice and threatened to close down the sport in the state forever.
Nearly 10 horses a week, on average, died at American racetracks in 2018, according to the Jockey Club’s Equine Injury Database. That fatality rate is anywhere from two and a half to five times greater than in most of the racing world.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/sports/horse-death-santa-anita-pimlico-.html
So to all of you who posted saying “sudden death is just part of the horses’ world” – 
:eek: :rolleyes:
Injuries are very different from cardiac events. Injuries can be preventable; catastrophic cardiac events cannot, at least as far as we know today. The number of horses who die from catastropic cardiac events is tiny compared to the number of horses who are euthanized because of injury. It does the racing industry great harm to put those two kinds of death in the same category and speak of them in the same breath.
Two dead horses in a day, both at Stronach tracks. I’m not a fan of him or his operation(s). Guess some here are.
Wishing for safe trips for everyone today (and tomorrow and every day after) and that the industry continues to be pressed to improve their safety record.
Yes, sometimes cardiac events kill horses. They do.
Why is this a hard concept to understand? A horse’s circulatory system is different than ours. Heck, some people die of their first heart attach.
Don’t get your reaction.
If you’re getting your trusted, reliable information from the NYT, good for you.
You do realize that the cardiac event of one horse was completely unrelated to the broken shoulder of the other horse…right???:rolleyes::sigh:
Not sure how you can blame either occurrence on TSG
Do you feel like a good person, posting on a forum for racing fans, grasping at straws to find horrendous accusations?
How are you expecting us to react?
Honestly curious.
Because to anyone with a thimbleful of racing knowledge, you and your article sound about as logical as a flat-earther argument right now.
Rackonteur, the NYT is a good paper, but they no longer have a reporter that follows horse racing. None of the mainstream press (that I’m aware of) still have a racing columnist.
You have to read the “trades” to find writers who are educated about racing. They may not always agree with one another, but they won’t be quoting PETA, they’ll be writing from an experienced and knowledgeable viewpoint.
For crying out loud. It happens. In all high level horse sports; in all low level horse sports; in all pasture level living. Come on.
ETA: No one wants to see any horse die doing anything, but I fail to understand what you’re trying to accomplish with this thread.
Ah well, in the midst of all this tragedy/unavoidable accident debate, we can at least have a giggle at the humorous juxtaposition.
Coanteen for the win!!! Good catch :lol:
The thing about the newspapers is that they are in more of a death spiral than racing is and in order to generate revenue, sensationalism rules. If it bleeds, it leads and there is no context given. Because making people angry, sad or fearful is a stronger motivator to click and subscribe than trying to educate anyone. Any attempt to link those two deaths is frankly ridiculous and beneath the New York Times. Trying in some way to link the Derby DQ to Santa Anita was equally ridiculous other than the two events both involved horses.
Where is the NTRA when these hit pieces drop? Racing is a billion dollar industry and an economic engine when you start to consider all of the component parts from the people who work on the track and the farms, to the feed and the tack suppliers, the bloodstock agents, farriers, insurance guys, auction houses, van drivers, vets, and hospitals. The takeout on gambling goes straight into state coffers. Property taxes on claims are not minor amounts of money. Taxes on stud fees are not an inconsiderable income to Kentucky not to mention that horses are tourism.
People who think it is a good thing that racing gets bloodied like this I believe haven’t thought it through. Racing has funded a lot of the new veterinary medicine procedures that we take for granted now.
Besides read those comments–as ignorant as those people are, their concerns are not just that they race but that horses get used for “entertainment” and some go as far as moan about them being ridden at all.
We are becoming an urbanized country. Racehorses, police horses and carriage horses are really the gateway drug for the next generation of riders. It is the only way many people get exposed to living breathing horses and some of those go on to catch the bug. PETA and their ilk want to take away two of the three (they don’t dare attack police horses even though arguably the conditions they face are every bit as onerous) and that’s just sad.
Amen, @Pronzini
The thing that is maddening to me is that NTRA et al. have been their own worst enemy for the past 20+ years. They stay tight-lipped and let the sensationalists control the narrative.
“We” (meaning lovers of the industry) shouldn’t have to be doing all the legwork to try to change public perception.
Sensationalism in the press is not new. I avoid news sources that rely on it.
As I mentioned, the NYT has no racing reporter anymore.
I find the Washington Post and the Times, NPR and PBS the best sources for news, though I can only read so much news these days before I begin to feel that jumping off a cliff is a great idea, so I limit my intake. I go to the trades for racing news not the mainstream press.
I think you are spot on about the NTRA. The TOBA has the means to hire a publicist as well. They really need to get cracking. Fiddling while Rome burns comes to mind…
Hickstead collapsed and died at an FEI indoor jumping event in Europe with Eric Lamaze on his back. It was horrific and its all over youtube. That being said; eventing, jumping and racing put a tremendous amount of stress on the heart and lungs and circulatory system. Horses do die from heart failure during events, regardless of what discipline it is. Perhaps the filly had a genetic abnormality which caused it. A necropsy will reveal that. Horses are known to have died in their paddocks from the same issue.
Its sad and it happens. No one wants to send a horse to the arena or the track and not have them come back to the barn. The fortunate thing is this type of death is quick and painless. Id be much more concerned about the catastrophic break downs occurring at the tracks like the fractured shoulders and broken legs.
Your concern is justified but to be absolutely fair to connections, preexisting injuries can be really subtle. Shoulders in particular require a nuclear scan and that only makes sense if they are demonstrating symptoms up high after they are blocked off. It sounds great to just nuke scan horses as a precaution but it can cost a couple of thousand dollars and all you really learn is that there is an increased uptake somewhere which may or may not be the horse’s problem.
Legs can be subtle too. I had a horse at Golden Gate who was just not running to his potential so we assumed he didn’t like the Tapeta and brought him to Santa Anita. We gave him to a really good trainer who had him for 3 weeks and loved how he moved but said he was just a little short strided on one side after his works. No heat, no lameness, just a little short. We did full Xrays and on one of the views, we found a hairline fracture. We gave him six months off and he came back to the races.
Here’s the thing–the initial problem was subtle and most trainers wouldn’t have picked up on it. Then it took $600 worth of Xrays and a thorough diagnostician to find it. The horse absolutely could have passed the morning jog the day of the race and he also could have broken down in the race.
It was a confluence of events that prevented tragedy. He was probably getting a little sore near the end of his Tapeta races and he wouldn’t extend. The harder dirt surface made the short strideness evident after a three eighths blowout. It still took a team effort of serious horsemen and professionals before we got a diagnosis. But I’m sure if we missed it–and it was entirely possible to do that and not be monsters–we would have made it into someone’s diatribe about pre existing injuries.
I know there are trainers out there who are not as careful and thoughtful as the trainer we used. I know there are people who would have run the horse anyway. But the issue was really subtle and no one was more surprised than the Golden Gate trainer.
The point is that horses can’t talk and they often take some sleuthing to diagnose. Knowing how close I came keeps me from being too critical unless I know there is a basis.
Absolutely. The downside to these BBs, and to the anonymity that some approach them with, is the willingness of a few to judge people they have never met and to generalize as to the motives and feelings of a group based on their own biases. This type of rhetoric is damaging, and not based in fact.
Hopefully the OP will read the thoughtful posts here (like the one just above from Pronzini) and come to a different conclusion about racing and the owners, trainers and staff who do their best every day to make sure the horses we send out are safe and healthy.
@Pronzini I am glad that your horse’s issues were found but it seems like your trainer took the necessary steps to diagnose his issues. Your horse, despite lack of heat in legs, had a noticeable short stridedness on one side after his works. To me, this would be a lameness that needs diagnostics to address.
The issue is how many trainers and owners actually do this. Granted, not all horses present lameness in the same way or show potential issues like shoulder injuries. If there is a fracture 9 times out of 10 a horse is going to present some kind of lameness be-it drastic or subtle. For me, the issue lies in how many trainers and connections of horses actually do routine diagnostics on horses.
The million dollar stakes horses make up such a miniscule % of racing, we know those horses receive the best of the best because of their value and are well covered under insurance because of that value. Regular scans and routine vet visits are the norm.
Thoroughbreds are like Ferarri’s. They are the high end race cars of the horse world. You have a skeletal being racing at 45 mph around a track and doing regular high impact breezes on those fine legs. They need to be regularly maintained and looked after to ensure soundness and health. Even Santa Anita has the low level claimers. And I am not insinuating that low level claimers receive bad care or not enough care all of the time. I think they are genuinely looked after. But the majority of the racing in the states is done by the bottom feeder level trainers. How many of these horses receive the type of diagnostics and regular vet work needed to keep a Ferrari in utmost racing condition. Very few. And it is very few because of a number of reasons: Owners don’t want to spend the money on a horse barely paying its way, trainers don’t want to foot the bill either, if the horse is working fine and not significantly unsound they see no reason to go crazy with x rays to ensure both soundness and safety.
Add into that deck of cards what some of these trainers play around with in order to medicate a horse to the starting gate. Since the dawn of racing this has been a problem and will forever be a problem.
I wholeheartedly agree that many catastrophic injuries will happen with no pre-warning signs even in vet work. Horses can break legs in the field at home. Sometimes it just happens.
But my issue with all of it is this: is the racing industry genuinely being proactive as a whole to better the care provided to all level of racehorses. Is the industry, as a whole embracing positive change for the betterment of the sport and the horse. Is the industry making positive change on more diagnostic care on the backside of all tracks to ensure soundness and quality of health. These are the questions and actions being demanded by the general public who support racing and I think they are very fair questions
And please don’t tell me the diagnostics are expensive and regular screenings are expensive. #1 horses are expensive. #2 Racehorses are even more expensive. #3 as an owner/trainer your number one priority should be ensuring the soundness and health of the horse who is carrying a human around that track everyday. #4 veterinarian equipment and degrees are expensive, this is why the cost for work is expensive #5 if you cant afford to do the proper range of work to ensure a horse is ready and sound for its regular job, get out of the business
and before you judge me and say I haven’t a clue; I have been on the backsides of the high end barns where money is no object and I have been on the backsides of some of the lowest level racing tracks in the country where things are not always beautiful.
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