Trail Riding Issues -- how can I fix this?

[Jarrn]

I have a 14yo OTTB that I have owned for 8 years. We have mainly done hunter/jumper/eq type stuff, but nothing serious as he never liked showing. He is nearly bombproof, and rides in the arena extremely well with other horses and people. The issue is when I trail ride with another person.

I’ve mainly ridden alone the last 5 years, and nearly always at the walk (I boarded in a residential area, so paved roads only). However, I recently moved to a more “rural” area, where there are miles and miles of dirt roads and trails.

The horse is absolutely fine at the walk, either alone or with other people/horses. Very few things will upset him (charging dogs are about the only thing that can start to unsettle him). However, when with another horse, he becomes nearly unmanageable at the trot and downright dangerous at the canter. I can trot with another horse but I am constantly half-halting to try to get him to slow down and not try to run down the horse in front of him. He’s constantly yanking and pulling and being a general pita. It’s annoying, but I can deal with it (luckily the girl I ride with has a very calm OTQH who basically ignores my brat of a horse).

At the canter, however, he practically loses his mind. He wants to canter with his nose ON the horse in front of him. We’re talking close enough to clip hooves. Half halting causes him to tuck his nose into his chest and speed up. The last time we tried (one of the few times), I hit the ground before I even knew he had bucked. I do not know the trails here well, so I have never been in front.

Alone, we can trot and canter nicely and calmly and he responds to half-halts and is a general pleasure to ride, in the arena or out. But once another horse is involved, he has zero interest in listening to a rider.

Are there any tips to being able to trot or canter with other horses? I can handle the trotting issues if I have to, but the cantering issue is very problematic.

[beowulf]

Have you tried just letting him lead? Sometimes it is not worth the fight. I had one myself, miserable behind the pack and it just wasn’t worth getting the two of us upset over.

[irish_horse]

In my case it was just practice, practice, practice. I worked with another horse and we’d trot until my horse was just gonna turn into an idiot, and then take a break, then do it again. Same with cantering. That being said, he’s an epic idiot at endurance rides, but we’re working on that (hard to replicate 30 horses starting off in front of you!)

I’d definitely also try putting him in front. Not always, because I think it’s good up have a horse lead or follow, but while training. We like to play a game called “leapfrog” on the trail, while trotting the horse behind passes horse in front, then back horse, etc. I think most important: ride with friends who understand you might need to make ride adjustments due to behavior, compatible riding buddies are the best.

[Beverley]

The fix for mine was- just don’t fight city hall initially, let him lead. Duplicate track work to some extent with a willing partner- have a good long trot, followed by a canter where you are just bridging the reins and letting him go on a bit. Then try going behind or beside when this initial ‘racetrack workout’ is done and he is mentally satisfied that he’s done his work. Same system works in the arena, too, when they are overly goofy and trying to imitate Secretariat, just trot them in the arena for 5-10 minutes, going to the right like they do at the track, then do a half circle and canter/hand gallop going to the left for a bit. Can of course depend on the horse but I’ve found this variation on ‘what’s familiar’ to an OTTB takes the goofiness out/edge off without exhausting them, and when they are done with ‘their’ workout, they are calm and ready to focus on ‘your’ workout.

[Jarrn]

Alright then, I will have to try letting him lead next time, at least for a little while and see if it helps at all!

I haven’t let him lead yet because I don’t know the trails here well at all, and don’t know where property lines are or where the footing/brush is “unsafe.” I’ll try finding “easier” trails to practice this on!

Thanks you guys!

[Flash44]

Clinton Anderson had a good article about problems on the trail in the most recent edition of Horse and Rider. What I hear is that your horse listens to you when he feels like it, and doesn’t listen when he doesn’t feel like it. So he’s not really well trained. You need to take him out of his comfort zone on a gradual basis and get him listening to you instead of allowing him to do whatever he feels like doing.

[Countrywood]

Well, this comes from me, very conservative and safety conscious…I would simply not canter him for the time being with another horse on trail. He is not ready, it is dangerous, to yourself and possibly the other person/horse. Ask the girl you ride out with if she would mind just trotting and not cantering on trail rides for awhile. Most likely she will be okay with it.

That is amazingly great your horse is so stoic on trails and that you can ride him out alone. Many horses are only good in company and terrible alone so that in itself is great. However, you are introducing a lot at once. For five years you only walked along paved roads, now suddenly he is in all new territory, and trotting, and cantering on trails. Too much too soon. I would walk and trot on trails till he is safe and controllable at teh trot. Since he is not even safe or controllable at trot now with another horse, escalating it into canter just makes it worse. Ride out with an instructor, or the friend, offer to buy friend lunch or buy her a nice gift if she will work with you as a training partner on trails, walking, doing small sections of trot till he is more controllable, letting you lead, then going behind etc. Only when he is reliable at trot, and that could take months, would I try cantering, and then introduce it in small segments.

You might also try a stronger bit when riding in company, it works well for some horses and not others but worth a try…a mild kimberwick with chain link seems to work well for horses that normally wear a snaffle.

[China_Doll]

[QUOTE=Jarrn;7326883]
Alright then, I will have to try letting him lead next time, at least for a little while and see if it helps at all!

I haven’t let him lead yet because I don’t know the trails here well at all, and don’t know where property lines are or where the footing/brush is “unsafe.” I’ll try finding “easier” trails to practice this on!

Thanks you guys![/QUOTE]i would lead and why would you need to know the trails. I would not be cantering when I could not see what was ahead and where I was going. No need to know the trail. If you can’t see the trail do not canter

[jazzrider]

[QUOTE=Jarrn;7326429]
I have a 14yo OTTB that I have owned for 8 years. We have mainly done hunter/jumper/eq type stuff, but nothing serious as he never liked showing. He is nearly bombproof, and rides in the arena extremely well with other horses and people. The issue is when I trail ride with another person.

I’ve mainly ridden alone the last 5 years, and nearly always at the walk (I boarded in a residential area, so paved roads only). However, I recently moved to a more “rural” area, where there are miles and miles of dirt roads and trails.

The horse is absolutely fine at the walk, either alone or with other people/horses. Very few things will upset him (charging dogs are about the only thing that can start to unsettle him). However, when with another horse, he becomes nearly unmanageable at the trot and downright dangerous at the canter. I can trot with another horse but I am constantly half-halting to try to get him to slow down and not try to run down the horse in front of him. He’s constantly yanking and pulling and being a general pita. It’s annoying, but I can deal with it (luckily the girl I ride with has a very calm OTQH who basically ignores my brat of a horse).

At the canter, however, he practically loses his mind. He wants to canter with his nose ON the horse in front of him. We’re talking close enough to clip hooves. Half halting causes him to tuck his nose into his chest and speed up. The last time we tried (one of the few times), I hit the ground before I even knew he had bucked. I do not know the trails here well, so I have never been in front.

Alone, we can trot and canter nicely and calmly and he responds to half-halts and is a general pleasure to ride, in the arena or out. But once another horse is involved, he has zero interest in listening to a rider.

Are there any tips to being able to trot or canter with other horses? I can handle the trotting issues if I have to, but the cantering issue is very problematic.[/QUOTE]

Sounds to me like your horse needs to learn how to be a trail horse. Riding alone, on paved roads, only at a walk is not trail riding. Just because a horse is bomb proof in the ring does not mean he’ll be bomb proof on the trails. It takes training and miles, miles, miles to make a good trail horse. Find some experienced trail buddies, and start with just walking trails and switching positions from front to back with your friends to get your horse used to not always being in the lead safely. Start out in the lead if you need to burn some of the fizz out of him, then start switching order (in the woods might work best to avoid the run-by). Try to not always ride with the same horses if possible. When you’ve conquered that, then start to pick up the pace a bit (switching positions at the walk). Making a good, safe trail horse takes time. Sounds like your guy has the potential, just needs the miles and a little help!

[chicamuxen1]

Another thing that you might want to consider is changing to a different bit. IF you are riding in a snaffle bit just do yourself and the horse a favor and move up to a kimberwick or pelham, preferably a Myler. Train your horse in an arena so he is acclimated to the curb chain FIRST. Your OTTB was worked on the track in a snaffle. They were taught to lean and pull on that snaffle. IMO, a nice pelman or kimberwick, maybe with a little port (Myler has tons of combos) will be more comfortable in the horses mouth. It will give you improved controll and I bet your horse does less jerking and fussing.

I like to do leap frog games with the other horse on the trail. Keep switching positions and mix it up. Keep going up down, forward back. It will keep his mind busy, won’t let him get to forward before you come down to a walk then swap position, etc. Once he improves at the trot then add in 6 strides at the canter, trot, swap places, walk, trot. swap. etc. Keep the trot and canter sets very short, maybe just 50 feet and change, walk and relax.

chicamuxen

[Jarrn]

[QUOTE=China Doll;7327220]
i would lead and why would you need to know the trails. I would not be cantering when I could not see what was ahead and where I was going. No need to know the trail. If you can’t see the trail do not canter[/QUOTE]
It is not particularly flat or “smooth” here. People also tend to dump their trash wherever it suits them, so you won’t know that you are going through a pile of nails/wood/metal until you’re right on them. And those things are everywhere.

I will try the things you guys have suggested. He normally goes in a French-link, but have also tried a mechanical hackamore on the trails.

@jazzrider;7327407

Sounds to me like your horse needs to learn how to be a trail horse. Riding alone, on paved roads, only at a walk is not trail riding. Just because a horse is bomb proof in the ring does not mean he’ll be bomb proof on the trails. It takes training and miles, miles, miles to make a good trail horse. Find some experienced trail buddies, and start with just walking trails and switching positions from front to back with your friends to get your horse used to not always being in the lead safely. Start out in the lead if you need to burn some of the fizz out of him, then start switching order (in the woods might work best to avoid the run-by). Try to not always ride with the same horses if possible. When you’ve conquered that, then start to pick up the pace a bit (switching positions at the walk). Making a good, safe trail horse takes time. Sounds like your guy has the potential, just needs the miles and a little help!

He is also bombproof on the trail as long as he is alone! Your ideas are fabulous and I will certainly use them

Thanks a ton you guys! I’m definitely going to try leading and sticking to just trotting for now. Thank you!!

[tpup]

Hmmm…I would try the old “make the wrong thing hard, the right thing easier”. Go out with your friend. As soon as he crosses the line (a.e. tries to push ahead, etc) put him to work right there. Yield his HQ in circles, trot around a tree, back him up 50 yards. Then move on quietly. When he does it again, you do the same thing. High energy, he wants to move? Okay - trot him around and around until he is tired. When he walks/trots nicely without pushing ahead he gets to go with no interference. Make what he is doing HARD work. And trail riding nicely, no work/no pressure. But you have to nip it in the butt the moment the disrespect starts. I wouldn’t let him lead unless he does so on YOUR terms. When he behaves and also rides nicely in back, he gets to lead. It would also be interesting to try a 3rd horse and have him in the middle - to see if it’s that he wants to LEAD or is he just more afraid to be last/in back? Good luck!

[Countrywood]

Perhaps, ride him for 20 minutes or so in arena or field, before going out on trail, to burn off some of his excess energy, (until the trails are not such a novelty and he calms down.) Since you are not going to canter on trails for awhile, perhaps a nice warm up with trot sets and a few canters might help before heading out.

[Sparrowette]

I’m going to ask some of you more knowledgeable folks - Is the OP fighting her horse’s early training? As an OTTB, at some point in his youth, someone taught him that being in front is the place to be when at speed, right? Is she in a “re-training” issue?

[Countrywood]

It is not particularly flat or “smooth” here. People also tend to dump their trash wherever it suits them, so you won’t know that you are going through a pile of nails/wood/metal until you’re right on them. And those things are everywhere.

That is ridiculous. Could you organize a group of local trail riders to periodically clean the trails of these trash dumps?

Horses are smarter than we give them credit for. Though he does not spook at them, your horse might recognize the danger in these trash dumps and it could be making him flight prone, as in, “get me out of here.” I would personally not subject my horse to riding over land with not visible hidden nails and objects hidden in trash, I would either organize clean ups or not ride there or ride only along a first section of clear trails, If there is one there.

[Pocket_Pony]

I have the very same issue. I mostly trail ride alone just because I prefer to be alone. If I go out with other people it is because I want to enjoy their company and catch up with chit-chat, so I don’t really want to go galloping down the trail (which I’m happy to do on my own). What works for me is to do it with just one person whom I trust and ask if they’ll help me work on the issue. We start off with some trot sets of him in front, then behind, then moving up to the front, then getting passed. Then we move up to the canter with us behind, then in front. What I realized was the problem for him was a horse coming up on him and passing him - in front he’s okay and behind he’s okay, but if someone comes up alongside him, that’s when the trouble starts. It is trial and error and practice.

I wouldn’t go hell-bent-for-leather, just ask for a nice, quiet canter. Canter for two or three strides then walk again. Start slowly and build slowly. The more they build up, the more they lose their attention on you and get into race mode.

I am with you on doing fast work on a trail I don’t know. Once I know a set of trails I’ll trot and canter, but until I’ve been there a few times and know where the turns are or where the footing gets good or bad or whatever, then I’ll just walk. Bummer about all the crap on the trails - I don’t understand why people do such asshat-ish things to the trail system.

[Jarrn]

[QUOTE=Countrywood;7329225]
It is not particularly flat or “smooth” here. People also tend to dump their trash wherever it suits them, so you won’t know that you are going through a pile of nails/wood/metal until you’re right on them. And those things are everywhere.

That is ridiculous. Could you organize a group of local trail riders to periodically clean the trails of these trash dumps?

Horses are smarter than we give them credit for. Though he does not spook at them, your horse might recognize the danger in these trash dumps and it could be making him flight prone, as in, “get me out of here.” I would personally not subject my horse to riding over land with not visible hidden nails and objects hidden in trash, I would either organize clean ups or not ride there or ride only along a first section of clear trails, If there is one there.[/QUOTE]

We’ve done a few clean up type events, but it’s impossible to pick up everything. I’m still learning where the “clean” trails are, hence why I haven’t lead yet :). I’ll stick to paths I’be ridden before and know should be trash-free!

Thank you everyone again!