Well, where is this barn? What is the price of lessons? Is the trainer an employee receiving a paycheck or solely paid on commission?
Ohio
Half Hour Private Lesson- $50
Half Hour Group Lesson- $45
Hour Private Lesson- $70
Hour Group Lesson- $60
No horse use fees to use barn horses.
Trainer is currently also barn manager with a flat salary regardless of lessons taught. Looking to change to a % of lessons
In addition to a base salary or in lieu of a salary?
I ran several businesses over the years, the spread between private and group just looks to narrow to me… there would be I would think mostly private lessons. I believe there needs to be a greater premium applied to the private lessons of around 50% more than a group lesson…that would make the 1/2 hour at $67.50 and the 1 hour at $90
The only lesson setup we ever ran was horse camps,all the horses were ours so the cost of the mount was included but in your case some are and some are not? I would charge something for the barn’s horse use, if nothing more than to cover the cost of the barn’s oversight to make sure its horse was tacked correctly.
I worked at a saddlehorse barn while in college as a groom, the lesson horses were all barn horses that we the grooms tacked, even if the client owned the horse we tacked it for them.
Your problem might be easier to work with while setting down with a yellow pad and a bottle of drink, then outline just what needs to be accomplished as I believe there is more to the equation than what is presented
As their sole salary. No base salary.
Or trainer move to another barn where they charge the students directly. On privately owned horses.
Barns that run like this - collect all money, decide what to give trainer - typically loose the better trainers. It makes no sense for a trainer to stay if they are good enough to build a program.
It is the trainers who can’t do better elsewhere that will stay. It is up to the barn, based on what they offer and what their market will bear, how they want to offer their services.
And, using the barn’s lesson horses gives the trainer less negotiability. The barn can’t expand their program beyond what their lesson horses can do. So they don’t have much incentive to give more to the trainer.
It would be better for the trainer to collect their fees from the student and pay the barn a flat usage fee for each student-lesson taught. Add something for use of lesson horse. 5 students in group lesson = so much $ for each of the 5. And so on. But if the barn doesn’t want to do that, they just get someone else who will accept their terms. Because there are only so many lesson horses, and each can only do so much.
What is the standard lesson fee in your area for what the trainer is teaching, based on trainer’s credentials? Trainer collects that and pays $15 per ride or something for facility use, plus $ for use of horse— whatever is the usual usage fee for a facility with what that one has to offer in the area (groomed arena; jumps; cross country jump field; etc.) And capabilities- rideability of horse.
But that is usually for teaching riders on their own horse who really want to improve, and aren’t just putting in the time.
It may be time for the trainer to consider carefully what they want for the future regardless of barn , and the best way to achieve that. And then consider if this barn still fits where they are now.
So no reimbursement for doing barn management work, just pay for doing lessons?
1 Like
Barn management would move to someone else
Thank you all for the input so far
That’s not a salary. It’s a fee, based on a %.
A salary may have a commission added to it . Performance based, or sales based. But the salary is flat and doesn’t depend on the commission. There are some complicated dynamics for compensation based on activity that is performed using the company’s resources. But I doubt that a lesson barn has any interest.
This trainer needs to consider the barn’s point of view. The barn has a formula that they have probably been using for a long time. They have probably had other trainers before this one, and will have other trainers after this one.
Does what trainer proposes mean that the barn gets less? Barn will not agree.
What is the incentive for the barn to change?
Any negotiation has to figure out if there is enough mutual benefit to justify a change that both will agree to.
Trainer needs to present the greater monetary benefit >> to the barn << from the change.
Again, trainer needs to think carefully, and long term. What does trainer want for their own future? Is it reasonable to expect that it will come to them in this barn? What would make the barn in favor of giving the trainer more money? The barn’s money, as the barn sees it.
Usually when a trainer makes a proposal to the barn that gives the trainer more and the barn less, it ends up being a split and the trainer leaves that barn. I have watched that happened several times.
1 Like
I’m an assistant trainer in a small metro area with a high-ish cost of living.
My lessons are $50/hr.
I get $20, the barn owner gets $10, and the head trainers (who own the school horses) get $20. If I teach a lesson on a client horse or one of my own horses the BO doesn’t get his $10 since he gets board for those horses. I’m not currently doing training rides.
1 Like
I would suggest that trainer’s best way forward is to develop a client base that has their own horse, at this barn or elsewhere. So that the trainer is not dependent on the lesson horses. The lesson horses limit growth for both the trainer and the barn.
Trainer also needs to realistically consider their own credentials, whatever those are. Make a list of trainer’s accomplishments with students, horses, and their own riding if they are going to shows. That helps to market an independent training business.
there are hidden costs for the Barn such as liability insurance, electrical power, up keep and so forth… so why doesn’t the barn have a share?
Even if you as the instructor in charge may have insurance if there is an incident the Barn would be also included in any action.
1 Like
Trainer might be able to start expanding her own business and building her own client base by finding out if the barn will allow her to bring in outside lesson students with their own horses, in exchange for a facility use fee. Perhaps $35 per student per ride to the barn.
It will mean trailers coming and going, and other riders and horses on the grounds for an hour or two whenever trainers hosts outside lessons. Work out ahead of time where trailers may park and what wash racks or hoses the outside riders are allowed to use, and where they are allowed to go on the farm. Usually not into the main barn or the tack room, where existing boarders may be worried about theft.
Trainer should be prepared that the barn may find this a disruption that they are not accustomed to. But on the other hand the barn owners may welcome the additional income and enjoy having other horse people on their promises.
Whatever path, it sounds like trainer wants to do more for herself and does need to be expanding her horizons.
You need to talk to a lawyer that specializes in labor laws in your state. Especially since the DOL just clarified the classification of independent contractors vs employees.
In some states I believe it is illegal to pay an employee on a commission-only basis.
If you are considering the trainer to be an independent contractor, then I would expect them to set their own lesson prices, collect their own fees, and then the barn could charge them a facility use fee and horse use fee. Usually horse use fees are $10-40 per lesson. Facility fees vary significantly between percentages and flat rates, you should determine what is standard for your area.
If you are considering the trainer to be an employee, you first need to figure out if you can legally pay them on a commission-only basis. If you can, I would expect at least 50% of lesson fees to go to the trainer.
2 Likes
I don’t set the prices. I just get told who to pay and how much. The percentages were set in a deal between the BO and head trainers.
1 Like
The split between group and private lessons is oddly close. I’d increase private if the market can tolerate it or drop the group prices.
It sounds like you want someone to just come in and provide lessons without any management or other duties. That sounds like an independent contractor, although I’m far from being well-versed in where lines are drawn legally.
The independent instructors I know typically pay around 15-20% to the barn owner for a ring fee when teaching clients on their personal horses. Use of a lesson horse is a flat dollar value + ring fee. However, in situations where the instructor is a big pull for the barn I’ve seen lower rates negotiated.
1 Like
Do most boarding barns charge boarders a fee whenever they lesson? I would expect that liability, upkeep, etc. would be accounted for in the cost of board, so I’m not sure why that would need to be charged in addition.
6 Likes
Back in the dark ages, I had this exact job. We were all paid by the day and I was not paid any more as the manager than the grooms were. I got 30% of the lesson money.
Oh, this is another long thread worth of discussion where people debate how life is not fair.
Lots of places charge a ring use fee to outside trainers coming and using the ring. The trainer then passes fee on to the rider.
Both sides of this debate have valid points. The trainer has zero overhead by using a ring that belongs to someone else, why should the barn owner support their business and not charge them a fee?
1 Like
Yeah there’s about a million threads on this. A couple thousand on Facebook too.
The fee is to the trainer, not the boarder. If the trainer passes it on to the student, that’s their prerogative.
I don’t spend all my money on my farm for someone else to make money off of my property. Don’t want to pay a farm use fee as a trainer? Buy your own farm.
3 Likes
Just in my own experience, only when an outside trainer came in to lesson. The “barn trainer” didn’t owe the fee.
Theoretically, a trainer based at a barn should be keeping the barn full with their students and horses in training. The outside trainer is not providing that service for the barn, rather, the barn is providing the facilities the trainer needs to teach.
Exactly. Without the barn’s facilities and upkeep, there is no lesson. Facilities are part of riding for a purpose that benefits from a trainer. And, every ride does add usage and a need for maintenance, even just dragging the ring.
I knew one barn that did not have an in-house trainer, who allowed one particular outside trainer to use the facilities as they wished. In return, the trainer did the daily ring dragging in the morning for two large arenas. This particular trainer was meticulous, he was out there at daybreak every day for a thorough ring drag. I can still see him on the rolling tractor, leaning out of the seat, squinting at his work to get it perfect. Everyone loved the arrangement. 
2 Likes
