“is that going to be a problem going forward”
This does not need to be said or asked
give your fine fellow the days off he has earned. If this trainer cannot or does not want to foot the bill for schoolies, then they need to stop taking non-owning students
I would politely decline, and have some back-up barns in mind should she ask you to leave so she can fill the stall with a horse that generates more income.
I would also consider the possibility that he’s already being used in lessons. The type of trainer that doesn’t take no for an answer is often already taking advantage without your knowledge.
Yeah, no. Hard pass. He’s older, he has special needs, he deserves his day off- and you deserve to be the one enjoying him on the days he is working.
I used to run a farm with a training requirement (lessons or training rides, owner’s choice). If the owner had multiple horses, they could choose to use all of their training on one horse, which is what it sounds like you’re doing (3 lessons on your young horse and none on your oldie). They were also free to take lessons on a school horse, instead, but no one really took that option unless they had a laid up horse. If we used a boarder’s horse in lessons (usually requested by the busy boarder who wanted their horse working more) it fulfilled their training requirement, and they also got a per-lesson credit on their bill. Your trainer is trying to get something for nothing.
I wouldn’t offer any reasons for your decision. It just gives her something to disagree with and argue about, with many creative embroideries that bear no resemblance to truth. You don’t need to persuade her or sell her. Just show a firm and decisive front. 
In what other other business would this question even be asked?
Let’s say your business is to teach people a skill, for the sake of argument, how to become a race car driver. You charge people to house their car in your garage. You have a race track. You teach them how to drive their race car.
Is it reasonable for the race car instructor to ask if they can use your car to teach other people to become race car drivers, to not reimburse you, to not pay the insurance for your car in case of a wreck, and expect you to be OK with that? No one would ever agree to such an arrangement.
When people advertise that they teach riding lessons they should either have lesson horses or teach people to ride the horses their lesson customers own or lease.
What the heck kind of operation is this? The type that takes advantage of customers?
Usually if a horse is used in lessons and generating income for the barn, you would and SHOULD receive some type of compensation or board deduction for the use of horse. If you AGREE to the use of your horse, you need to get in writing who is responsible for any vet bills that may occur as a result of use and also how many times a week he may be used.
Perfect answer.
“No” is a complete sentence. If you want to be polite, say “No, sorry.”
I agree that if the question is being asked, there’s a fair chance that it’s already happening - you should be checking out alternative situations.
I’ve been there too once. I had a barn manager ask multiple times to use my then 3 year old in lessons and each time I said no. Came to find out that they went behind my back on Saturday morning programs (camps), when they knew I wouldn’t be there and used my horse anyways. I found out from a friend and confronted the barn manager over text spelling out that under no circumstances will my horse be used and had quite a snarky response back. Things didn’t really get better from there … the barn was a drama-fest, but to my knowledge they did respect not using my horse until I left. However, I do know that this happened to several other clients and worse when they didn’t lay down boundaries. One found out that they had been riding her horse daily before she came and another came to ride only to find that her horse was already being ridden by someone. When she attempted to confront the trainer, the trainer snarked and told her she was getting “free training”.
Anyways, if the trainer isn’t the type to respect “no”, then I’d be very wary of their true intentions.The trainer is not planing on offering you compensation for using your horse, nor do you need your horse to be exercised. I’d politely decline and see where that takes you. If your trainer decides to act like a child over it and not a professional, then move barns - clearly they don’t value you as a customer.
Yes, there is a chance that this could be happening already when you are not at the barn. It’s horrible, but the entitlement felt by some people is shocking.
Dude, with all due respect, what are you doing there? This trainer is mental.
I know it’s hard to change barns, for many reasons. But this trainer has blatantly demonstrated that she does not have your best interest – or your horse’s – at heart. That is a stone cold deal breaker.
I do not find the request to be out of line. We are always saying here on COTH forum that it never hurts to ask. Saint horses are hard to find, so a trainer that would ask about using one is smart.
Now, the owner should be able to say no with out it being an issue too.
Excuse me but what sort of barn is this? Has she not invested in school horses? She uses boarder’s horses, which boarders keep tuned up?
She doesn’t ride? Why? Age or infirmity, those are acceptable otherwise she is a genuine rip-off article.
Prepare to move!
Except this is an older horse who is ridden by the owner five days a week already. What sort of trainer would think it is good horse management to make a 25 year old horse work in a lesson program and be ridden by the owner 6-7 days a week?
Also, it doesn’t sound exactly like the trainer asked, and the pressure put on the OP to allow trainer to use the younger horse, too, makes it seem like a really uncomfortable and inappropriate situation.
I do not find the request to be unusual or out of line either. Many barns make arrangements to use boarder’s horses in lessons, but usually there’s a quid pro quo/some advantage to the horse owner, not always a direct credit to board. (To the poster who said their barn gave a $25. credit for use of a horse in a lesson - where are you located and what’s the lesson fee? That’s a very, very, high figure.) I frequently had boarders ask to have their horses used in lessons so they could stay in regular work or as a cheap substitute for training board; but the horses were not always suitable for the lesson program.
I also think it’s perfectly reasonable for the OP to decline to have the horse used. Her horse, her call. And from the description of the horse, probably the right one.
The posters who pointed out that the barn pricing structure may depend on each stall generating some additional income in lessons or other services are right on - many, many show/lesson barns are structured this way. However, I would think that they’d look at the OP as a package deal - more income generated by the younger horse, less by the older horse.
So unless the barn and/or trainer has given you other reasons to distrust them, their horsemanship or their respect for your boundaries, I don’t think there’s anything untoward about this situation. Just say “No, thank you.” and move on. I guess there’s a slim chance that at some point they’ll want to boot the older horse out of the stall in favor of better income producing boarder, but I would cross that bridge later.
Except this is an older horse who is ridden by the owner five days a week already. What sort of trainer would think it is good horse management to make a 25 year old horse work in a lesson program and be ridden by the owner 6-7 days a week
I didn’t see anywhere that it was stated how much the barn wanted to use the horse - it’s possible that they only want to use the horse once or twice a week. If they needed a horse for 10 - 12 lesson hours a week, they’d probably buy a new school horse. If you need a lesson horse for 2 - 3 hours a week, an underutilized boarder’s horse can be a great solution. Also, your math doesn’t work - if the owner is riding 5 days a week now; why would adding the horse to the lesson program mean the horse is now being ridden by the owner 6 - 7 days a week?
I see nothing nefarious or indicative of bad horsemanship in this proposal. The trainer’s eagerness to use the horse in lessons could simply mean it’s a really nice, suitable horse.
I read that OP rides the older one 5 days a week, and gives 2 days off and the trainer wants to use the horse for those two days, leaving a horse who’s not exactly young, and with age comes some issues ( as always not always but its inevitable) with 7 day a week riding maybe thats how the horse who’s now sound will turn unsound very fast and as a trainer maybe its also your duty to your clients to look out for the welfare of said clients horses. To add to that OP stated trainer already asked to use her younger imported horse whom im assuming she’s also riding 5/6 days a week and takes lessons on so again doesn’t need ‘training’ or ‘ticking over’. From what im getting the OP is already spending, more than is necessary per barn contract, no where does it mention she will be getting any compensation for her horses to be used in any lessons, that she pays board on and no where did she state she asked for the trainer to use her horses because she has no time to ride herself. As the older horse must be of nice quality and trained decently if trainer wants to use him in beginner lesson meaning the horse sure as hell doesn’t need ’ training’ nor does he need to be ‘kept ticking over’ as she rides him 5 days a week. Also what will happen should someone fall off her horses? or one of the horses gets injured. So basically OP is paying for the privilege for her already trained elder horse to be used by her trainer, with zero in return and probably will insure more costs with this. Yea seems like a fanatic opportunity.
Just because someone has a very nice suitable horse doesnt mean the trainer is entitled to use the horse or even ask, especially if the trainer knows the horses age and how much he is ridden now, this simply shows me that the trainer doesn’t actually care much about the horse and only her pocket. Unless the boarder goes up to the trainer and say can you help keep my horse ticking over or can you use my horses in lesson program and see if somehow I can get a reduced board the trainer doesnt need to be asking to use an aged horse.
nu5ha,
I agree with your analysis.
I don’t agree with the posters who seem to think there’s something nefarious or untrustworthy about the trainer’s proposal.
Unless there’s more to the story than being told, there’s not. The OP just needs to say no and move on. Her nice old horse, her rules.
Wouldn’t say untrustworthy, but it would make me think, does my trainer actually have my animals welfare in mind. Im not saying she’s a horrible person who’s untrustworthy and doing things behind ones back, im just saying it would make me think a little. Dont care how fancy the barn is, or how trainer is just fantastic who got my horse jumping whatever heights, if said trainer started to suggest something that is not in the best interest for my animal ( and she knows this) and could potentially cause me more head and heart ache and on top of that without even trying to suggest compensating me other than having the honor of paying her for this I would start to think a little.
But then again I do have a tendency to over analyze everything.
I would ask myself what’s in it for me and my horse? In this case, apparently nothing. Your horse doesn’t need the exercise and she hasn’t offered to give you a credit on your board for using your horse for lessons. God forbid your horse is injured during a lesson. Plus, do you want to subject your old guy to beginner riders bouncing on his back and yanking on his face? For me it would be an easy no.
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