Of course, the point of a local show is to ramp up the level of chaos that a horse needs to learn to cope with. Personally, I think there are ways to take a horse to a horse show for the purposes of learning the ropes without any chemical help. But you have to be a bit of a horseman to make those good decisions about how to choose what to do with your horse in order to let him dip into the chaos and then retreat from it so that he learns that he can, in fact, survive. And this most certainly takes time.
If you read my post above in this thread, you’ll see that I was taught my a good horsewoman how some Ace can be part of this teaching. But the last really green horse I had to teach to horse show I did before I knew how anyone would use Ace to help. So I can’t tell you whether or not Ace, plus a good horseman who takes a baby to a show just to learn, could speed up or improve the process of teaching a horse how to self-sooth and stay attentive to his rider in battlefield conditions.
And what makes you think I’m fat shaming? I was only pointing out that I don’t have much padding therefore have less protection on my bones. Sorry if you took it personally. I have no idea what you even look like. I assumed Big Mama refers to your horse. I’m not surprised though that you’ve twisted this around to make it about yourself.
Right? Weird, but considering the source maybe not so much.
And I agree 100%. Sedatives absolutely have a place but not at competitions. If you are drugging a horse to control its behaviour in competition it’s cheating, period. If it can’t compete safely undrugged, it shouldn’t be competing.
Does this happen in other disciplines besides h/j and reining?
Ah, a typical response @BigMama1 since all you do is bash conservatives in Current Events. And if I was fat shaming (which I wasn’t-sorry you took it personally) how is that different from attacking a person with conservative views? Both can be changed.
This is not the thread for politics and not sure why you are dragging anything from CE over here. But note I have never “attacked” anyone. Disagreeing with someone’s political views and pointing out logical flaws in their arguments is called a discussion, not an “attack” and is not remotely the same as attacking someone’s appearance, or cheating at a horse show lol.
That pretty much was how the barn I boarded at was run. I started boarding there at 16 and we had several other teen girls and it worked well. Younger kids had parents there.
Kind of interesting how many adults had problems handling and riding and benefited from supervision but we never really needed it.
I disagree, but I’m not hijacking someone’s thread. Enough people have done that to my one comment that would have remained at one comment if people hadn’t read more into it than they did. I apologize to the OP that your post got derailed. I won’t comment further. If you want more info on Trazadone you are welcome to PM me.
My guess is this is horse/situation dependent and there is no “safe” dose. When I was was rehabbing one after surgery, she was on a high dose of traz for turnout/handling, plus 1 cc of ace for her first few rides. You would not have been able to tell. Her excitement/pent up energy just burned straight through everything. My vet had warned me about this, and mentioned that for ace, if there is a lot of stimulus its not really going to be as effective at keeping them quiet.
Similarly, as mentioned upthread, some fox hunters are running first flight, galloping for miles and jumping coops and stone walls with 2 ccs on board. On the other hand, looking at a syringe of ace might be all the excuse my quiet gelding needs to take a nap in the middle of the ring.
After reading this whole thread, I saw nothing about desensitizing at home. There’s more options than lunging, drugging, or letting the horse have a bad first experience. Use the heck out of the feed bags, grocery bags, plastic tarps, noise makers, Halloween costumes, speakers with horse show sounds, etc. and maybe the show ring would be a lot easier on everyone.
Exactly! Train first until the horse is ready to go off property. And then train off property until the horse is ready to compete off property.
In other disciplines people often enter as a schooling entry, so they go to the show, stable on the grounds and ride in the warm up rings, but don’t actually compete. Is that not common in h/j?
They may not seem noticeably sedate, but they doesn’t mean their awareness and reflexes aren’t somewhat impaired by the drug. It’s like someone who seems perfectly sober after a couple of drinks, but their reaction times and responses are actually impaired.
Trazodone is an anti-depressant with sedation as a major side effect, which makes it a popular option for people with anxiety and / or insomnia. Obviously a 1,500lb horse isn’t going to process a small dose the way a 150lb person will, but for some people to claim it’s not a sedative and there’s no risk is ridiculous.
There is always a risk by when riding a sedated horse, and you’re right, the level of risk may vary from horse to horse and situation to situation. Personally it’s not a risk I would ever take myself, and certainly not one I would want kids and / or students to take.
There is always a risk riding any horse. Its great that you have not been in a situation where the risk of riding a drugged horse outweighed the risk of riding that same horse without anything on board. I’m envious. (ETA: I’m talking specifically about a rehab scenario here).
Rehabbing my own horse after surgery, it would have been a far, far bigger risk to my safety for me to get on without trazodone and/or ace.
Depends on the definition of neuro. A horse with mild shivers that only manifests when picking out a hind foot and doesn’t affect performance under saddle? I owned one of these and had no qualms riding him at that point. But as soon as their condition progresses and they become trippy, show balance issues, slight lack of coordination, lack of awareness where their feet are, or explosiveness / unpredictable behaviour, etc. absolutely not. Not worth the risk.
I agree that safe rehab at home is a very different scenario than drugging a horse to behave well at a show.
With rehab you definitely have to weigh the relative risks and the possibility of worsening an injury if the horse not sedated. And you do that in a controlled environment at your own stable, presumably with other people there to help if needed, and perhaps even taking extra precautions like wearing a body protector, using a neck strap, etc. and I’ve never known any rehab plan that involves jumping a sedated horse. By the time rehab has progressed enough that the horse is fit for jumping, there would no longer be need for sedation.
Oh dear, I would not mix Traz and Ace. Both can lower the seizure threshold, and mixing the two makes that risk go up. I used Prozac for layup/rehab for one horse, and my vet warned me of the same thing for Ace and Prozac. He got Dorm for his first time out in the medical turnout paddock but thankfully didn’t need anything else once under saddle.
But yes, it can be so variable how horses respond (or don’t). My current horse that’s been laid up/rehabbing for almost a year got a little bit of Ace for his first hand walk back in the great big arena, and he was so clumsy. It did help him adjust to the new routine and then we were able to go in there without any drugs, but I have definitely not ridden him on it. He gets a light dose for the farrier still but that’s it. The vets offered Traz to me, but he’s already asleep 99% of the time on no drugs, so I declined :). It is helping a friend’s horse with surgery recovery, though. But I don’t think she plans to ride him on it when it’s time for that.
As for going to shows, I think that if you have something like this that you’ve tested at home and are good with, it can help a horse become ok with the outings. But I don’t think all of the options are created equal or allow for the same amount of learning while on it. And I am not in favor of actually competing on any of it–but for a field trip for a young horse that is not showing, depending on the behavior, that might be kind of the same as a rehab type situation. I did have one steward tell me I should Ace one of my horses who was a bit wild hand walking out in a completely empty warmup area at a show after that ring was done, since he was there to learn and not show. I did not react that kindly to that suggestion.
