Tranquilizer use at "local" shows

[StormyDay]

I personally would not show a horse on ace, reserpine, etc because it’s a safety issue. And I would never put a student on a horse on ace,reserpine, etc because I do not want to get sued if the horse trips and little sally falls off and gets hurt.

Personally, I do not think sedatives give an edge over other horses in the show ring. Giving your horse ace won’t make it have a longer canter stride or a better jump. All it does is numb your horse. That to me is not a benefit.

The best ‘sedative’ for horse shows is time, allowing the horse to grow up, and going to as many outings as you can so it’s not scary anymore. Drugging your horse doesn’t train your horse, it’s just a crutch to get you past that one show/day/ride.

[Bending_Line]

I don’t think it is OK. If the horse is up, as others have said, someone needs to be in charge of walking him all over the place, maybe finding some grass to nibble, or finding a steady friend to follow around. Then the pro or a good junior could/should do the first hack around, or the open warm up class, or what have you. If the horse is still too up for the W/T kid, W/T kid will have to scratch. Sorry. We don’t drug horses to seek glory ribbons in an elective sport. Go home and drop and cross your stirrups.

[kmwines01]

The theory of helping a young horse get a good experience is interesting. I couldnt find great sources for horses with a quick and dirty search but in dogs ace is almost never used for actual anxiety. It is used as a sedative to suppress the manifestations of anxiety. So I wonder if we’re just not seeing those things when we give it. I did find an article that described a drop in learning and retention of information which would defeat the purpose of using it for a young horse. Interesting things to ponder

[enjoytheride]

In those certain circles the trainer will tell the new trainer about the specific program which involves ace. Heck, sometimes even without the former owner knowing the horse was aced every time they rode it because that was the trainer’s way of keeping the horse safe.

I don’t agree with it, but in certain circles the regular use of ace is no big deal and freely discussed.

[vxf111]

I rode at a barn where horses were routinely aced without the riders being told. All sort of other shady stuff went down there too. I left. But there were riders who truly did not know they were riding aced horses. They were truly ignorant.

[kaya842]

“For adults/children on horses - if the rider can handle nothing but a robot type ride, and any deviation from that elicits a total melt down, I suggest they find another sport that doesn’t involve a living animal.”

I don’t think I’m quoting you correctly here but stick with me. You brought up a point several other have also stated or alluded to - riders who are rather unprepared for anything other than a calm, quiet ride with no looking/ spooking/ nothing out of the ordinary. I agree with your point 100%.

However, in my experience that just isn’t how it works. Trainers want to make money, and they make arguably more money the more clients that go to a show. That kids that hasn’t even cantered yet? Sure! Let’s sign them up for the w/t classes and give pony a bit of ace to ensure he doesn’t spook (even though he doesn’t normally, trainer needs to be SURE client has a good time so they do more shows for more $$). Heck, there are a lot (again, IME) of clients doing the 2’6-3’ who can’t handle a true spook or buck or sometimes even the smallest of crow hops/ porpoising.

While I agree that the horse should not be drugged to make up for the lack in the rider’s capabilities, I see it as the better of two evils. The trainer is not going to tell the client no they can’t show because they don’t ride well enough (and, if they do, client will just go to another trainer who will take them to the show) so if it is between drugging pony OR lunging the crap out of pony OR risking client’s safety - I vote for the Ace. Again, it is not ethical, it IS cheating and it is no where near ideal but there is a lot of culture changes that would need to happen to make staying at home until you can do X Y Z or until pony is 100% unflappable (I’m trying, and failing, to put into words the points others have made as to why drugs are not the answer). There is a strong social aspect to showing for those who are in a lesson barn or program (social pressure), obvious financial incentive for the trainer to make it happen, and societal pressure to go out and show.

Those of us outside of show barns/ not in a program/ doing things on our own are going to be in a very different situation than those within a program. I would also argue that many/ most of us here in the forums have more knowledge of how to handle situations without drugs and the desire to put in the time to work through it (such as lots of off property hand walks or non showing field trips for the young horse) than your average ammy/ owner.

[meupatdoes]

@Foitin

the horses can still get injured with fast and heavy prep, especially with consecutive shows.

Is something forcing these horses to go to multiple shows vs leaving one out once in a while?

[meupatdoes]

@kaya842

Those of us outside of show barns/ not in a program/ doing things on our own are going to be in a very different situation than those within a program. I would also argue that many/ most of us here in the forums have more knowledge of how to handle situations without drugs and the desire to put in the time to work through it (such as lots of off property hand walks or non showing field trips for the young horse) than your average ammy/ owner.

I come from Westchester/NJ and now live in an area where the local yokels are king. I’m no Andre Dignelli but I trained a kid to sweep the local hunter division two years in a row on a grade QH simply by teaching her to ride in a straight line and address the contact. I’ve ridden in clinics where my then 6-7 year old trained-from-scratch horse was more broke than everyone else by a significant margin and the only one going in a regular snaffle.

In rated land, these are green horses. (Horses were 4 and 5 when videos were taken. The grey was on like his third jump school ever in his life.) In the local yokels, those two would be the fanciest, most broke and rideable horses on the property and they’d win the whole show.

In short, there are certainly areas where education is in short supply. It’s certainly frustrating not having easy access to good instruction, but then again, many people who claim to be stretched financially mysteriously end up with more than one horse that they ride poorly rather than having one horse that they take enough lessons/clinics on to actually install a half halt and pace control. For some reason, many people can afford board on two but not board and lessons on one.

In short, believe me, I get it that it can be tough to find good help in many areas of the country. But this does not change the fact that if you (or the barn you ride at) can’t make it around the 2’ local yokels without drugging the horses, you’re a yahoo and your trainer is a yahoo, too.

Yeah, I said what I said.
YAHOOS.

[Curly_Feather]

@meupatdoes

In short, believe me, I get it that it can be tough to find good help many areas of the country. But this does not change the fact that if you (or the barn you ride at) can’t make it around the 2’ local yokels without drugging the horses, you’re a yahoo and your trainer is a yahoo, too.

Yeah, I said what I said.
YAHOOS.

Preach it.

[vxf111]

I read Kaya as saying the opposite. When you’re in a program you’re sometimes pushed to show and take shortcuts if that’s easier and when you’re not in a program you can take your time and do what’s better for the horse.

[meupatdoes]

The way I read what Kaya said, she said many local folks don’t have the tools in their toolkit to address issues without drugs.

And to clarify further, “you” was general you, not Kaya you.

[trubandloki]

@Mander

I’m curious if you replaced “horse” with “person”, or even, “nervous child” if you would still be so ethically cavalier about helping them “have a good experience”…

Not debating your general point, just this sentence.
We as a society find it 100% acceptable to medicate nervous, reactive, worried people so they have a better experiences in life. There are commercials all over TV for those types of medications. Anxiety meds are common and plentiful.

[meupatdoes]

@vxf111

When you’re in a program you’re sometimes pushed to show and take shortcuts if that’s easier and when you’re not in a program you can take your time and do what’s better for the horse.

Oh, and also, speaking of “taking your time”, at the local yokels you get a long list of evergreens flying around.

See someone got a new horse, oh look, it goes like it raced fkn yesterday.

Next year, horse is a year older, still goes like it raced fkn yesterday.

Third year… yep, stilllll goes like it raced yesterday.

If it takes you (again, general you) several years to install basic straight lines, acceptance of the bridle and pace control, your only excuse for not taking every lesson you can find better be a global pandemic and none of the decent clinicians are flying anywhere.

If everything is zipping around picking up the cross canter and leaning through its turns and not a single horse in your barn (again, general you) or in your trainer’s program, regardless of how long it’s been there, has a simple, rythmical hunt canter that you can just let go of his face and lope pleasantly around the outdoor in your two point and ride a straight fkn line without drama, then the problem exists in the program, not the medicine cabinet.

It really should not take several years to install intro/training level flatwork and apply it to a 2’ course. There comes a point where “taking your time” turns into “not being able to train worth a hill of beans.”

[Willesdon]

@trubandloki

@Mander

I’m curious if you replaced “horse” with “person”, or even, “nervous child” if you would still be so ethically cavalier about helping them “have a good experience”…

Not debating your general point, just this sentence.
We as a society find it 100% acceptable to medicate nervous, reactive, worried people so they have a better experiences in life. There are commercials all over TV for those types of medications. Anxiety meds are common and plentiful.

Only in America.

[vxf111]

My experience has been that drugging to quiet horses is a lot more prevalent in serious hunter programs. Yes people are flying around like bats out of hell at the local yokel barns but that’s because they’re not drugging. Of course those horses should have better training, I don’t disagree, but ace-to-show (at least in my experience) is a phenomenon coming out of the actual show barns where little Suzie wants to go to the shows everyone else goes to and the trainer would rather drug a fancy pony to get little Suzie around rather than say “you’re not ready, stay home” or find quiet half dead packers that are safe but won’t place. I rode in plenty of places that were the sticks and there was a lot NOT to emulate but it wasn’t drugging to quiet for showing. That particular phenomenon is something I saw at hunter show barns. Not yokel barns.

[WildGooseChase]

I only show local, and while no one talks about it, I’m sure it’s used.

If your walk trotters can’t pack kids around, they don’t belong in that ring.
If your lead line horses can’t be calm even with a handler, they don’t belong in that ring.
If you have to use prescription tranquilizers/sedatives to show, they don’t belong in the ring.

I hate to generalize the industry, but far too many riders and trainers are looking for immediate results without putting the work in. Ace and lunging your horses into the ground aren’t your only options, in fact, they shouldn’t be on your list of options in the first place. We need to start putting the work and time into these horses. Great show horses aren’t just bred, they are MADE.

[meupatdoes]

It doesn’t have to be an or.

Drugging occurs at local programs and rated programs.

However, this thread was about local shows.

People need to choose what type of rider and owner they want to be and what programs they choose to support with their money.

As for local shows, the requirements to be competitive are literally to ride in a straight line at a controlled speed on a reasonably agreeable horse. If you need drugs to accomplish that get a tennis racket.

At least (“at least”) at rated shows the requirements to be competitive are way higher, so it’s somewhat more understandable (not acceptable, and believe me there are plenty of great rated programs that can meet the standard just fine without a chem kit), that a lower tier rated program would turn to the medicine cabinet to bridge the gap. Or, sadly, an upper tier program trying to get that last edge up on the competition.

But again, this thread was about the truly pathetic spectacle of needing/using drugs to hop around the local 2’ division where half the competition is counter cantering the course.

[vxf111]

This is true, it’s not a problem limited to one group or another. I’m just pointing out that (at least here at my local shows in the mid-atlantic) the offenders are the show hunter barns and not random yee haw barns. Random yee haw barns have their own sets of issues but the people who were at Penn National a couple weeks ago are the people with aced horses at our B/C (where I’ve never seen testers in a decade of showing. I’m sure they’re occasionally there but not regularly enough to discourage drugging) and local shows this week. Probably a quarter, at least, of the A-rated programs here are not above a little chemical influence to get horses around a local show.

[MadTrotter]

I agree. Our local yokel shows don’t have a lot of fresh off the track crazy action, but what they do have, in spades, is a LOT of borderline to outright lame old campaigners creaking around the courses. To the point I WISH they would drug them up a bit.

[awaywego]

agree with @vxf111- I’m in the same general area, where we see many barns who do both local and AA shows. I kinda think for bigger programs there is a feeling of “it’s just a local show.”