I’d consider the triangle an improvement and would add to the credibility of HB classes.
[QUOTE=Mardi;7161792]
In the classes I have watched, many horses are presented this way.[/QUOTE]
As I have said elsewhere, there are a few handlers who aren’t up to snuff on their jogs. But the vast majority trot a long ways and fall into a nice rhythm with the horse. There is plenty to see for the judges who care about movement. And most don’t.
I don’t care one way or the other, but saying that enough movement isn’t seen is not correct.
Besides, how much does a true horseman need to see to make a judgement? Not much!!
The problem w/ the current way horses are jogged is that yes, after a bit the handlers do get the horses going BUT more often than not the judges have already looked away after a few steps so in reality, for the judges there is only a few steps. By doing the triangle, the judges cannot look away without it being very obvious.
When I pay $150 per class to have my horse handled, I do want the judges FULL attention and want enough time to really get the horse shown for better or worse. Political placing is much harder for a judge to get away with when the horse does a prescribed pattern and everyone is watching that. I agree with BaysofourLives that judges do turn away to watch the next horse after just a few steps of trot and sometimes long before the horse begins to swing and move freely.
[QUOTE=dianehalpin;7162806]
I agree with BaysofourLives that judges do turn away to watch the next horse after just a few steps of trot and sometimes long before the horse begins to swing and move freely.[/QUOTE]
So why do they turn away? Do they not know it usually takes a few steps of trot for the horse to really get in gear? If not, why are they judging? 
Some judges turn away, most don’t, but the ones who do make the exhibiter feel “written off”. This is why I like the idea of some type of prescribed individual pattern. And yes, some horses “play” and/or curl around the handler the first few strides, some drag along the first few strides, and even with the ones who trot off promptly with their handlers it does take a few seconds for the hind end to engage and the back to relax and swing. In my own experience, little attention is paid to the walk generally, by some HB judges, though the walk is a good indicator of future performance I believe.
So, as I said, the problem is with the JUDGES thinking it is ok to turn away before the handler has had a chance to get horse moving. I think far too many of the judges do not give proper attention to the movement portion, nor do they bother to position themselves to see walk and trot well. They can set their ring/pattern up however they like.
And how do you see the triangle preventing political placing? And what class did you enter that costs $150?? That would need addressing, too! LOL!
I agree that judges can set up however is best for them, but I’ve seen Junior get his best trot coming around the curve at the far end of the ring, and occasionally have noticed the judges are already on to the next entry by then. I think that by sandwiching the trot between the GOOD walking portion and having the trot or walk end up right back AT the judge really forces the issue and the horse is noticed all the way 'round. I do think this should be saved for the most important Hunter Breeding venues but I will ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE that the spectators, owners, breeders, and other interested parties kept their eyes on the judging in the Sallie B. Wheeler, horse by horse, the entire way around, as did the two judges.
My handler fees at Warrenton were $150 per class. With Fanfare, I figure my handler earned it.
“The triangle”
I was surprised by the triangle at Del Mar. I’m very glad to know that Debbie and Sharon defined the pattern. I thought it was innovative and did result in each horse getting more time to have its movement evaluated. I think the 3rd leg of the pattern, going back toward the judges, could have been half trot and then walk. This would allow the head on view to see deviations in limb movement at the trot. It also would have moved the class along a bit faster if that is a desired goal.
I hope the SBW continues to be innovative; it is the capstone competition for the year and it was wonderful to see it differentiated from other competitions.
Here is a man keeping up! 
Richard Taylor jogging the overall winner, Rainier.
Great Discussion
I am not sure if anyone thinks like I do, but I had a preconceived notion when I heard Triangle. I pictured what I have seen at various dressage shows that offer classes for young stock.
The operative word here is “variation”. A variation of a triangle was used in the SBW and allowed the judges to see the horses in a different manner.
Hunter Breeding classes will always be hunter breeding classes and judged as such. Personally I think The Sallie B. Wheeler US National Hunter Breeding Championships should be special! We are offering $1000 per class and it is a National Championship.
I understand change is difficult for some, but I believe it’s time to move forward and try some new things. As an owner, I am excited about this innovative approach, and it seems a majority of posters on this thread agree.
We know a jumper gets scored on the least amount of faults, a hunter on way of going using a even pace. My point being, regardless of what these horses are asked to do… they are still judged on their particular discipline. I take great comfort knowing that judges can do their job even if the course may be different or formats are adjusted. The more one gets to see can only help and allows each horse the same amount of time in the ring.
^^^Great post!!!^^^
[QUOTE=VirginiaBred;7165326]
Here is a man keeping up!
Richard Taylor jogging the overall winner, Rainier.[/QUOTE]
He barely did more than a shuffle so wasn’t too hard to keep up
I disagree completely Baysofourlives. Rainier does’t know how to trot in a shuffle and if you look at the photo, that completely proves that. :rolleyes: Sounds like you have a case of sour grapes?
[QUOTE=VirginiaBred;7170977]
I disagree completely Baysofourlives. Rainier does’t know how to trot in a shuffle and if you look at the photo, that completely proves that. :rolleyes: Sounds like you have a case of sour grapes?[/QUOTE]
Jesus. Someone who was there disagrees with you so now it’s gotta be sour grapes? How about “I think the picture tells a different story” and leave it at that??
That’s a better way to put it ahf. 
That’s a better way to put it Kate.
