@IPEsq - Ahhh thanks for the clarification, I just assumed feed is probably something we want to avoid and keep as a last resort if possible. Good to know it’s forage based.
I also read that horses are big fans of fenugreek? @tikihorse2 further reading says that it is used as a flavoring agent in imitation maple syrup!
Wow, I didn’t know this! Cool! 
@tikihorse2 I would never have guessed! I also couldn’t for the life of me place the taste of earl grey tea when I first started drinking it. Come to find out bergamot is used to flavor Fruit Loops and that’s where I knew it from or so I was told 😂.
My lessons from owning the super picky horse:
-anything “different” tasting gets introduced in very small amounts & increased very gradually. The funkier the taste, the slower I go.
-don’t give up after the first rejection or two. keep at it, even in small amounts bc sometimes they will get over their protest with time (this was def. true for mine with several ) & begrudgingly admit it’s not actually an attempted poisoning.
-not all horses read the book of what they are supposed to like, mine didn’t like peppermints for a long time but loooves candy canes. we put crushed candy canes in warm water to train him to take bitter medicine his life depended on when he was in hospital. your horse has a weak spot somewhere for his own flavor of bribery , lol.
-sometimes it helps to offer 2 bowls, especially if horse is isolated from others & you can leave a bowl in there. split meal in half & only put supplement in one of the bowls. He may only finish the “clean” bowl first (so he doesn’t get stuck w empty stomach) , but might come back & finish off the other one w supplement in a hour or so (I have another one who did this for a while).
I was so excited to feed my horse a banana after I read a study that horses “love” them years ago. My picky guy sniffed banana & looked at me like, “uh, are you out of your mind? No way.” I sighed as all my funny photo op ideas vanished, alas.
Yup. Just like kids! I tried a piece of banana with a friend’s gelding. He took it, mouthed it a bit and spit it out so fast, I about got hit with it. The hairy-eyeball I got was priceless! :lol:
Tried a banana tonight and we are in the same club that @wildlifer and @ChocoMare hahaha. He tasted it and that lip went right up!
Interesting observation…I measured everything out with a kitchen scale tonight. I have landed on .25 lb of alfalfa cubes and .25 lb of the beet pulp (dry weight) as to not add too much to his current diet. That should leave some wiggle room to increase that a bit or splitting the CT into two servings if he doesn’t accept more CT with that amount. This is going off the recommendation that their intake should be 1.5 - 2% of his weight (so 15-20 lbs total/day).
The CalTrace instructions say “two scoops” with their scoop, or 4 ounces/1000 lbs which is about what Charlie is at. I decided to measure the scoop to make sure I was precise and the scoop was only one ounce! I double checked my scale with something that had a weight on it and it was accurate. I assume the recommendation here would to be go the weight route? If so, I am only giving him a quarter of the supplement -_-
Just as an FYI- TC Senior is beet pulp based and that banana you tried has the same NSC 
I do believe we do! I have been giving him 1/4 lb each (dry weight) of the alfalfa cubes and shredded beet pulp (no molasses) with hot water and using the molasses water mix 1:3 ratio to coat the pellets with before tossing them in. We’re up to the two scoops of the pellets and he’s excited to eat everything I’m going to be diluting the molasses down more to try and wean him off that as much as possible over the next couple weeks.
Re your scoops- remember that volume ounces do not necessarily translate to weight. Your scoop probably measures volume.
Haha, this crossed my mind shortly after I posted; I’ve been going with the 2 scoop recommendation. Silly measurement systems,
Nutrition gurus; vet was out today for fall shots and I asked about Charlies weight (he may be the easiest of keepers) as he is starting to get a grass belly. With the weather shifting to winter and overnight turnout turning into day time which will be less hours in the pasture, the vet was in agreement that we can wait on considering a grazing muzzle until we get closer to spring 2021.
When he asked about his diet, I told him just pasture and the Cal Trace with the alfalfa/beet pulp mix (which is working just ducky). He recommended a ration balancer to mix his Cal Trace with and didn’t think the forage was necessary unless he has digestive issues (which knock on wood we don’t currently). He also didn’t seem to know what Cal Trace was and looked at me a bit funny when I mentioned not wanting to add unnecessary iron to his diet nor had much to say on what exactly needed balancing that wasn’t.
Our hay is grown on the property so that is awesome that we have some consistency with that. My barn mate who is in the same vein as much of the nutrition and hoof care advice I’ve gotten here, has it tested yearly. As such, he said we have pretty good quality of hay (and pasture for that matter) and the Cal Trace is perfect for Charlie. We are going to do a full nutritional analysis in the next week or so to really dig into what he gets now vs what the Essential K ration balancer that the barn offers has (he doesn’t have his horses on it), just for kicks and to help me get a deeper understanding of the factors in play (I love data and spreadsheets lol).
I’m not planning to change anything at the moment based on the vets recommendation other than seeing if I can cut back the half pound cube/beet mix a bit for now at least. I guess my questions boil down to 1) should I be considering a ration balancer for my very easy keeper (three and a half years old)? If there is something that is dreadfully missing, I would rather consider just adding THAT to his diet and not THAT and 35 other things that he likely doesn’t need.
And 2) for the easiest of easy keepers, should I keep him on a 50/50 split of the alfalfa cubes/beet pulp, or increase one or the other:
Alfalfa cubes:
Protein: 16%
Fat 1.5%
Fiber: 30%
Beet Shreds:
Protein: 7.5%
Fat: 0.5%
Fiber: 21%
On a personal note, this is all super interesting to me with horse nutrition and how much it seems to be in line with human nutrition. I eat a plant based diet as heart disease runs rampant on both side of my family and went cold turkey with my dad over a decade ago. He was able to get off meds and has had great bloodwork since; this lifestyle helps me manage a couple chronic conditions I have as well. Anyways, seems that nutrition in horse and human education is glossed over quickly. It’s amazing how everything from plants to people to horses tends to do better when it’s nourished with proper diet.
No one can really answer this without the hay test. Depending on how the hay comes out, it could be yes, absolutely or no, not really, or sure, you could go that way, but there are other equally reasonable and easy options.
I very much feel the same way with my easy keeper that you feel with yours, only we do have some persistent problems in her that are very likely diet related. Even though everything LOOKS very good in FeedXL (and I do test my hay), I tried her on a ration balancer…and she promptly abscessed. Which is one of our issues, but one that’s been a non issue for quite a while.
So…if you don’t have the nitty gritty about the BIG parts of the diet, you really can’t make educated decisions about the little parts of the diet. And sometimes when you have allllll the info, the horse still doesn’t read the dang book and you’re still left scratching your head. :sigh:
But get that hay test first, see what you have, and what you need, and go from there.
@Simkie We do have data from the hay tests I just haven’t seen them. I do trust my barn mates analysis and understanding on it and Charlie’s Cal Trace mash is super similar to his one horse who is an easy keeper (maybe not quite as easy as Charlie lol) as well so I think we’re in the ballpark as we are now already. I think his mare may have some flax tossed in with hers? I am anxious to see the data myself though!
When you get that, highly recommend signing up for FeedXL. You can add your hay test data and then really dig around with what might be lacking in the hay, and how to fix it.
You can also build your own spreadsheet and go off of the NRC: https://nrc88.nas.edu/nrh/ But FeedXL makes it soooo easy.
@Simkie - My barn mate sent me the same link! 😂 I’ll check out FeedXL too and ask if he is familiar with that as well.
that’s a viable option in some cases, and in most of those cases, it needs to be a 1/2 serving of the CT, not a full one
and didn’t think the forage was necessary unless he has digestive issues (which knock on wood we don’t currently).
The amount of forage you’re feeding to mix the CT with is insignificant relative to the grass he’s eating.
He also didn’t seem to know what Cal Trace was
And there is the problem with him recommending a diet change.
and looked at me a bit funny when I mentioned not wanting to add unnecessary iron to his diet nor had much to say on what exactly needed balancing that wasn’t.
Final nail in the coffin - this is why most vets don’t need to be giving out nutrition advice. But at least he knows what a ration balancer is
I’m not planning to change anything at the moment based on the vets recommendation other than seeing if I can cut back the half pound cube/beet mix a bit for now at least. I guess my questions boil down to 1) should I be considering a ration balancer for my very easy keeper (three and a half years old)? If there is something that is dreadfully missing, I would rather consider just adding THAT to his diet and not THAT and 35 other things that he likely doesn’t need.
1/2lb of that mix is in the 500-600cal range.
1lb of a ration balancer is in the 1300 cal range, AND you’d be adding soy to a horse who is likely prone to metabolic issues. So no, it’s not a change I would make
And 2) for the easiest of easy keepers, should I keep him on a 50/50 split of the alfalfa cubes/beet pulp, or increase one or the other:
beep makes more volume, alf has more nutrients (though at the small amount, not terribly significant). If the mix you have is working, I wouldn’t bother changing unless a change is convenient
I use a little scoop of Raspberry Powder that I found on amazon. Its pretty potent! I was reluctant to use molasses or anything rich like that as my horse is already fat lol.
Apple sauce. I buy the little cups.
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