Trying to find a Bouvier

[PaintPony]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;8425048]
Very happy for you.

I just bought a Boxer puppy and the seller surprised me by not asking one single question about where I lived, how suitable a place I had, nothing, showed no interest at all — just wanted the pups sold, I guess.

I, personally, think if I was a dog I would think I lived in dog heaven here.

However, when it was time to have her come to her new home, she did say this one was the most mellow of the litter, and we are, in a word, ecstatic about her. Little monkey that she is.[/QUOTE]

You are not allowed to say something like that and then not provide a picture! It’s against the COTH rules.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8425505]
With breeds that aren’t very common the puppies often get sold quite a distance from the breeder. I am sure it would be very difficult for the breeder to check everyone out first. I think that they probably assume the homes will be suitable when people are willing to pay a large amount of money for the puppy.

There was a breeder that I purchased a puppy from many years ago who first refused to sell me a puppy. She did not want her dogs to be “farm dogs”. She assumed the dog would be chained up as a guard dog. I provided pictures of my place and assured her that my dogs were my companions and lived in the house with me. The fact that I had horses rather than a working farm also made a difference.[/QUOTE]

I have a breed that is even less common than Bouvs, and responsible breeders do indeed thoroughly check out homes that are at a distance, either personally, or by having a home visit done by a friend in the area. Yes, it can be difficult, but responsible breeders do this even though distances are a factor.

Most I know do this in advance, rather than arriving with a puppy to a home they have not yet approved.

[Foxtrot_s]

Panted Pony - I know, I know, it is against the rules … just that I don’t know how to post pictures!

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8425505]
With breeds that aren’t very common the puppies often get sold quite a distance from the breeder. I am sure it would be very difficult for the breeder to check everyone out first. I think that they probably assume the homes will be suitable when people are willing to pay a large amount of money for the puppy.

There was a breeder that I purchased a puppy from many years ago who first refused to sell me a puppy. She did not want her dogs to be “farm dogs”. She assumed the dog would be chained up as a guard dog. I provided pictures of my place and assured her that my dogs were my companions and lived in the house with me. The fact that I had horses rather than a working farm also made a difference.[/QUOTE]

I have a breed that is even less common than Bouvs, and responsible breeders do indeed thoroughly check out homes that are at a distance, either personally, or by having a home visit done by a friend in the area. Yes, it can be difficult, but responsible breeders do this even though distances are a factor.

Most I know do this in advance, rather than arriving with a puppy to a home they have not yet approved.

Willingness and/or ability to pay large sums are in no way an indication that the home is appropriate for my breed, although an ability to afford the purcahse price and therefore the subsequent health care certainly does disqualify the home.

[GraceLikeRain]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8425486]
I am sure it would be very difficult for the breeder to check everyone out first. I think that they probably assume the homes will be suitable when people are willing to pay a large amount of money for the puppy.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I’m fairly involved in the show world and know a number of quality breeders. I’ve actually literally never met one I would recommend who would sell sight unseen. I actually facilitated a breeder-buyer contact through COTH. The breeder picked a show half way across the country and the buyer drove out to meet her. Most that I know wouldn’t even feel comfortable meeting at a show for the first time except in really unusual situations.

Is this a show breeder who does health testing and is involved in their breed club or a hobby breeder?

[mommy_peanut]

Glad you found a pup. The Bouvier breeders I know all breed working lines.

[Houndhill]

OP, I understand that this will be your fifth Bouvier over the years, and I have no doubt you are a great home. I know you are very eager to get a puppy, but I am a bit worried that there are red flags about this breeder. They seem awfully eager to sell a puppy, to deliver a puppy to a home where they have not met you on the basis of a phone conversation.

Do they do all recommened health testing? This is not a breed where you want to get into bad hips or elbows or other factors that affect longevity. Do you know the ages and causes of death of the dogs in the pedigree?

Temperament is so very important in this breed. Do they have performance or working titles on these dogs? What is the temperament of the sire and dam like? Wouldn’t you like to see them and meet them first? Are you familiar with these lines?

Dogs of the same breed can vary quite a bit, you can’t assume this puppy will be much like yours in the past unless you have enough information.

It is always difficult to wait, but sometimes it is a wise course to make sure you thoroughly check into what you are about to commit to for the next 15 years or so.

[Cat_Tap]

People are raining on my parade. Am I just old and uneducated, too trusting?

My four previous Bouviers all came from different breeders. I never checked any of them out nor looked at their parents. The first dog was from a littler of 10. I saw the puppies, picked one out and purchased him. Met the father of my second dog and this time there were only two to choose from, one male one female. I wanted the male. My third dog was purchased quickly because of the unexpected death of my previous one. This time he was the only puppy that didn’t sell and was four months old. These three dogs were wonderful animals. None of these breeders checked me out.

My last Bouv came from a very reputable local breeder that I had known for years and she knew me and my farm. This dog was difficult and quirky. Could not be trusted with people and anything that moved. However once I own an animal I do not return it but try to adjust his lifestyle for his own sake.

All these dogs were healthy and lived to be 10 to 13 years old. I am trusting the fact that the person I am dealing with now is selling me a healthy dog in order to keep her reputation. She and her partner do show, groom and board dogs.

There are no guarantees how a puppy will turn out and I guess that I just have to hope that this puppy will not be a disappointment regarding health and disposition.

Even killer (Jekill and Hyde) who was a difficult dog was very much loved and quite entertaining with DH and I in the house.

[Casey09]

Perhaps I am missing something, but my female that I had for 10.5 years was the same - the breeder staunchly believed in hand delivering the puppies to the new homes. Actually she had driven the puppy halfway across the country a few weeks before, and she and the new owners decided that their adult dog and a puppy would be too much, so she left with the puppy. In many cases both the side and dam won’t be on the premises if the breeder has used a different site. I have a dog that I meant both the parents and they were exuberant and friendly. He is not necessarily either of those things.
There are certain health tests you will want the side and dam to have. Check on those. You can ask about meeting them. Sometimes, you can get references on the temperaments if you can’t meet them. As far as knowing how every dog in the pedigree died, it’s good information but it is difficult for a layperson to use as there is always something bad in there.
My understanding is that the lifespan of a large dog like that is about 10 years - after 10 it is all a gift. You’ve had some exceptionally long lived dogs and aren’t a first time owner of the breed, which in my experience makes a HUGE difference in the screening. If you spent much time talking to the breeder, I think the fact that you kept one that was high prey drive (a frequent characteristic of the breed) and not necessarily ecstatic about strangers (another characteristic) probably bode in your favor.

[Foxtrot_s]

By the time a pup is ready to leave its birth home, the temperaments can be assessed as they interact with their littermates. You will have to take the breeder’s word for what the pups are like…maybe do not tell her what you want, and as she describes each one decide…and hope she does not switch the pup.
(that comment makes me feel really low - and distrusting - and negative.)

[Cat_Tap]

I had a choice of four puppies, 2 males and 2 females. There were two black and two brindle in both the males and females. Though I know that is not how they will end up when full grown I chose the black male. The breeder stated it was the one she would have chosen for me as he is the most laid back. I realize that she may have just said that to appease me.

As far as the color goes it really doesn’t matter to me. My first dog was brindle as a puppy and turned black. The second was black and turned brindle. The third dog was the same as the first and the last one was black turning grey as a puppy and remained grey.

Bouviers have always appealed to me. They suit my personality, aloof and not demanding. They were respected by everyone including the Hydro meter reader. This is what I wanted as I live alone on a farm with no visible neighbors. There was no way anyone would open my door especially when Killer was alive. He was really handy when solicitors came to the door.

I was really looking forward to this puppy but after following this thread I am anxious. I have never questioned or worried about the purchase of my previous dogs or held the breeder responsible for the outcome.

I am the same about my horses most of which were impulse purchases. I always tried to find ways to deal with whatever problem arose.

Hope this will all turn out well and my faith in humanity will still be in tact.

[vxf111]

Can you ask for references and contact people who bought puppies from this breeder in the recent past?

[Zu_Zu]

Congratulations !! Start with a name … and just try to get some rest until !!!

[B]
Congratulations !!!

[/B]You have a list of names ??? right ??
[B]
and a new crate and bedding and toys and bowls and ???

So excited for you !!!

(Ignore the ‘worriers’) !

He is going to be perfect ! for you and your life !

He is a lucky dog to have a home with you !

** pics asap pplleeaassee ?!

a load of Jingles & AO ~

• this is going to be fine !
  [/B]

[Cat_Tap]

Foxtrot I have to disagree with you about assessing early temperament. Winston (killer) went to puppy school and passed with flying colors. It wasn’t until he was a year old when he changed. Even then I could see it when his “light bulb” went off and I had to get hold of him immediately or he would be gone. The people he knew always spoke to him before entering the house and they could tell whether it was safe to come in by the look of his face.

Once I became aware of this killer instinct I tested him by taking his cookie out of his mouth. If he had tried to bite me I would have had him put down. However he never threatened me in any way and I could do anything with him except work on his feet. He hated that. I did have to muzzle him for his annual shots. The horse vet did that as my dog vet didn’t want him as a patient.

[Cat_Tap]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8427448]
Can you ask for references and contact people who bought puppies from this breeder in the recent past?[/QUOTE]

She was recommended by another breeder.

[Casey09]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8427464]
She was recommended by another breeder.[/QUOTE]

That’s generally a good sign.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8427464]
She was recommended by another breeder.[/QUOTE]

That’s fine but to re-assure yourself that her customers are happy with their dogs, can you ask for 3-4 to contact yourself?

[Cat_Tap]

[QUOTE=Zu Zu;8427453]
[B]
Congratulations !!!

[/B]You have a list of names ??? right ??
[B]
and a new crate and bedding and toys and bowls and ???

So excited for you !!!

(Ignore the ‘worriers’) !

He is going to be perfect ! for you and your life !

He is a lucky dog to have a home with you !

** pics asap pplleeaassee ?!

a load of Jingles & AO ~

• this is going to be fine !
  Thank you ZU ZU for your positive reply. I have never crated before but the breeder is providing a crate which she recommends using while he is a puppy. I still have all the bowls, toys, beds and grooming tools from my other dogs.

I am certainly not rushing into things as my last dog died in June. I have been searching for a puppy for quite some time and it hasn’t been easy.

In the past I found all my dogs immediately. There just aren’t many breeders in the area any more.

And I do have a list of names but haven’t chosen one yet. My previous dogs were Merlin, Murphy, Cooper and Winston. I have also had a Bearded Collie, a rescue who came with the name of Sarah and a Golden that was dropped at my mailbox the size of my hand (vet figured he was three weeks old) named Odin.

[cbv]

[QUOTE=Cat Tap;8426953]
People are raining on my parade. Am I just old and uneducated, too trusting?

My four previous Bouviers all came from different breeders. I never checked any of them out nor looked at their parents. The first dog was from a littler of 10. I saw the puppies, picked one out and purchased him. Met the father of my second dog and this time there were only two to choose from, one male one female. I wanted the male. My third dog was purchased quickly because of the unexpected death of my previous one. This time he was the only puppy that didn’t sell and was four months old. These three dogs were wonderful animals. None of these breeders checked me out.

My last Bouv came from a very reputable local breeder that I had known for years and she knew me and my farm. This dog was difficult and quirky. Could not be trusted with people and anything that moved. However once I own an animal I do not return it but try to adjust his lifestyle for his own sake.

All these dogs were healthy and lived to be 10 to 13 years old. I am trusting the fact that the person I am dealing with now is selling me a healthy dog in order to keep her reputation. She and her partner do show, groom and board dogs.

There are no guarantees how a puppy will turn out and I guess that I just have to hope that this puppy will not be a disappointment regarding health and disposition.

Even killer (Jekill and Hyde) who was a difficult dog was very much loved and quite entertaining with DH and I in the house.[/QUOTE]

Just fyi…I bought a cattle dog and came on here and asked about experiences with ACD’s. I had Border Collies so not new to herding dogs. The responses made me fear I had made a terrible mistake…Have had the dog 12 years now and is ‘the best dog ever’.

I have had Great Danes, Borzoi’s, and BC’s. All from responsible breeders if health testing, experience, competitiveness in chosen field (breed, lure coursing, agility, herding trials). But they did not require exhaustive questionnaires or home visits.

And all the dogs but one lived beyond the average for the breed, had good temperaments and drive typical of the breed, and we’re much beloved. The one with health problems, the breeder contacted us as soon as an issue arose with a litter mate, offered to take the puppy back, offered a replacement etc. We kept the puppy and dealt with the issue and would buy another from that breeder without hesitation.

[Foxtrot_s]

Go for it! Nobody, nobody will mess with anybody with a dog like that.