Trying to find US show record: horse imported from Germany

[Paint_Party]

That ad raises a whole lot of red flags for me as it’s currently written. By Colestrus “out of Beerbaum”? Saying the horse is “bored” with her and needs more “stimulation”? And aren’t some of the injuries she alludes to from this very same horse?

The photos of a leg here and there, splayed and akimbo, are also horrible.

She’d be better off being completely honest about this horse, his sketchy past and his behavioral problems due to as yet undefined issues. Yet I doubt she will. My guess is that she’ll end up selling him cheaply to an unsuspecting, naive novice (who’ll end up hurt and scared), working a deal with a shady dealer, or dumping him at an auction like the one from whence he came.

I feel sorry for the horse. I’m certain he was once full of promise and potential but has been ruined by too many of the wrong humans over the years.

[SpicyPRE]

The block feature is quite nice.

[SpicyPRE]

if things were different in my life, I would love to take on this horse. He needs a soft place to land.

[RavtoadOH]

Oh my, Where is it? I didn’t know this was available on here?

[RavtoadOH]

There’s a ton of red flags and I think a lot of intentional misspellings to prevent his previous name listed from being searched since this incident happened. Prior to the above ad, it the horse’s full name she uses, correctly spelled sire, and the seller was insisting that the horse listed was bred at Beerbaum. I did my research and found the breeder, which is obviously not Beerbaum. So at least she “corrected” that part.

It’s extremely unfortunate for the horse and anyone else who gets on him not knowing his history.

[SillyHorse]

@RavtoadOH

Oh my, Where is it? I didn’t know this was available on here?

1. First you need to click the round profile picture at the top right of your screen. Yours is a turquoise “R.” A drop down menu will show up, with all your notifications etc.
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7. Click the username of the person you want to ignore.
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9. At the bottom of the pop up is a grey box with white lettering that says “Ignore”. Click that.
10. Save your changes.

[RavtoadOH]

Thank you!

[RavtoadOH]

He really does. This horse is beyond sweet on the ground and needs a very thorough vet exam to see if there’s a physical reason behind this. I’m worried about his welfare and how/where he ends up.

[SpicyPRE]

its definitely pulling on my heart strings however, I am not about to give her 15k for him.

[IPEsq]

Considering the seller kept going back to the OP hoping she’d make an offer after being sent to the ER, maybe the lady would accept just taking him off her feed bill.

[SpicyPRE]

Oh…hmmm

[Paint_Party]

Give her a week. Another month of feed bills is staring at her.

[RavtoadOH]

I think the big push here is she wants another horse. The initial week of heavy conversation prior to my first ride and right after, all she seemed about was making sure this horse had a great home. Then, it was suddenly a 180 flip that she’s “lost out” on a horse because the sale is taking longer because I actually wanted to do a PPE and try the horse over fences. I didn’t know prior to this she was even looking at other horses actively and wanted the horse gone asap. All of a sudden I felt like I was being rushed, and she was sending me pics of the horse she lost out on and the one she supposedly went and saw instead. I was also told she had other buyers ready. I asked if any of them had even physically seen or ridden the horse to be serious buyers and I was told that she hadn’t let them, because I had first choice `

Her “offer” was a reduction to 11k after the incident. And 15k “firm” if she sent the horse for the 2 months of training with the prior trainer he bolted and bucked on. So I don’t think there’s much in the way of reasonable pricing here. Not sure if there’s been any rethought on that part.

[Aussie_2020]

She’ll dump him at an auction before she gives him away. Poor horse, but there are many just like him. One of the horses Clever Cowgirl got at auction had to be put down. He was a skinny, beaten up mess when she saw him run through. He was very cheap and she figured she’d take a chance. He had multiple lameness issues. She tried her darnedest to get him healthy but he just got worse. So with the advice of her vet she let him go. Very sad. But she did right by that horse and in the end he died having had good care and someone love him. I guess sometimes you can’t ask for better than that.

[skydy]

I believe that you can, on COTH, post the name of the person who tried to sell you this horse.
You cannot accuse them of a crime (stick to the facts ma’m and only the facts), and this is not a crime, just, in many of our opinions are dubious/bad business practices, which we are allowed to discuss.

This is the person (name-inserted-here) and this is my experience with them, is allowed.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@RavtoadOH

I think the big push here is she wants another horse. The initial week of heavy conversation prior to my first ride and right after, all she seemed about was making sure this horse had a great home. Then, it was suddenly a 180 flip that she’s “lost out” on a horse because the sale is taking longer because I actually wanted to do a PPE and try the horse over fences. I didn’t know prior to this she was even looking at other horses actively and wanted the horse gone asap. All of a sudden I felt like I was being rushed, and she was sending me pics of the horse she lost out on and the one she supposedly went and saw instead. I was also told she had other buyers ready. I asked if any of them had even physically seen or ridden the horse to be serious buyers and I was told that she hadn’t let them, because I had first choice `

Her “offer” was a reduction to 11k after the incident. And 15k “firm” if she sent the horse for the 2 months of training with the prior trainer he bolted and bucked on. So I don’t think there’s much in the way of reasonable pricing here. Not sure if there’s been any rethought on that part.

I find it really strange that she tried to sell you the horse AFTER you tried it and then had the bolting incident that resulted in you going to the hospital. It sounds like you all were still actively engaged in dialogue then?

Were you still considering buying the horse at that point? Was that the same timeframe when you called up the cowboy trainer and got more information on the horse’s behavior during the clinic from several months ago?

[findeight]

Sure you can, there was a very long running thread on the Eventing forum about a named terrible Texas trainer. Also long running named crooked dealer in Ky threads. But those stuck to proven facts and public records so be careful.

If somebody asks for recommendations on named trainers I know are unsuitable for their needs or have a bad reputation I just say “Wouldn’t be my choice”. They can do with that what they will. Found that if you flat out say don’t go there, some will get defensive and more determined and do just that when they just need to do a little more research.

IMO, OP has every right to sue for negligence if she so chooses. If this happened in a “ regular” situation there would be no hesitation. Horsefolk have always put up with this shady behavior and allowed it to continue for some reason. This lady knew, had paid a trainer to mitigate the behavior yet failed to inform OP on top of the pack of lies in her ads and statements. Probably drugged the horse for the first ride but no proof on that one.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@findeight

IMO, OP has every right to sue for negligence if she so chooses. If this happened in a “ regular” situation there would be no hesitation. Horsefolk have always put up with this shady behavior and allowed it to continue for some reason. This lady knew, had paid a trainer to mitigate the behavior yet failed to inform OP on top of the pack of lies in her ads and statements. Probably drugged the horse for the first ride but no proof on that one.

Well… the OP will have to look at the expense and hassle involved in pursuing litigation, and the likelihood of collecting any sort of award.

And then there is the question of the continued dialogue with the seller AFTER the accident. If she wanted to pursue litigation, it might have been wise not to continue any contact with the seller following the accident.

[mika0116]

Reading upthread I believe OP implies that the continued communication was at the directive of counsel.

Also, folks (myself included in this bunch hence I am speaking on it) who have the disposable income and time often will pursue things like litigation with no expectation of compensation or award. Having a lawsuit and public record of this person’s behavior can be satisfaction enough in the “attempt” to prevent someone else from falling victim to this person’s behavior.

Anecdotally, I rode with trainers that indeed have had similar lawsuits brought against them - I wasn’t aware for the first few years I rode with them until I considered buying a horse from them. An independent saddle fitter tipped me off to investigate them from a legal standpoint.

Lawsuit(s) against them did not award the other party much from a dollar value perspective given the physical damages and loss of personal property / damage to property, BUT it did make me not engage with the trainers further & I certainly didn’t get on horses they attempted to sell / high dollar value lease to me.

I thank the person that sued in my mind often for going after what they felt was right - and based on some quick LinkedIn / Social Media stalking of them (including property purchase records like homes and land in CA) - they did not pursue legal action for the money - they have MORE than plenty.

[RavtoadOH]

I find a lot of things really strange from the seller with many aspects of this. I find it strange that she didn’t ask me one single time if I was ok after the incident happened considering she is a medical professional, and kept repeating “I’ve never seen him do that before” over and over. I also find it strange that she asked me if I was still going through with the PPE that was tentatively scheduled for 2 days post ride IF things went well (and that was communicated prior to the incident).

There was communication after because she asked me to followup with her as I was on my way to go to the ER. Because of the level of complete denial, outright lying, extremely skewed perceptions of what happened, and numerous things in her involved responses, including asking me for advice on certain areas, I told her that she needed to send the horse to a very competent trainer and make them fully aware of what happened so someone else wouldn’t get hurt. She followed up with me later stating she had found a trainer that “worked with Grand Prix jumpers”. I asked who this was, she provided his name and info and I had never heard of this person, so I called him. The call is when I found out about the horse going to this very same trainer in June for the problem horse clinic, which resulted in the horse bolting and bucking on him, the trainer saying the behavior would be repeated unless the horse went through extensive training, and subsequently finding the vid as well.