Two Shot Vs. One Shot Euthanasia

[Obiwan]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8799318]
[edit] That was the worst apology I have ever seen by the way. The dog is dead, I don’t see what you can possibly gain by calling her out over her decision not to stay with the dog other than to add to her pain. You may “know” about animals but you don’t seem to give a crap about people and their feelings. [edit].[/QUOTE]

I think you may have read my post wrong. And I have to add this because, well, it’s the internet, and you seem pretty worked up, but sometimes things get taken the wrong way. The thought of letting one of my own animals die without someone they know if I have the opportunity to comfort them myself has never crossed my mind. Which is why I was so taken when someone suggested just that. I was one of the first posters, few people I know have not been with their pets, could be a regional thing. It’s a point to think about. Do I stay, or do I not? [edit]

[vxf111]

Until you’ve walked in someone else’s shoes… Best to withhold judgment. We’re all different. What some people can handle, others can’t. I’ve held the end of a lead rope when a grieving owner couldn’t. We all hope to be strong in moments of grief but things don’t always work out the way we might wish

[Kachina]

I just had a dear old kitty put down. A surprise diagnosis of advanced lymphoma. We thought we’d lose her to her CKD or her heart, but no. She was a fighter at the vet, and on this day had undergone a few diagnostic tests which were very stressful for her. After the decision was made, the vet stepped back and recommended gassing her for the sedation. The tech put the mask over her face which she didn’t mind and she fell asleep in my arms. Then the vet came in and I think injected the euth solution directly into her heart? He didn’t use a vein and she was so sound asleep that she had no reaction whatsoever. I’ve had kitties hiss at the pain of the tranq injection. Really hated that. The gas was so so peaceful. Can any of you comment on why this method of sedation isn’t used more frequently? Sorry OP for your very upsetting experiences. It’s hard enough without complications. And on the other note, I’ve stood in for euths for friends that just. could. not. handle. it. I don’t think it’s necessarily all that helpful for a sick animal to have their owner sobbing hysterically as they pass if there are gentle, calm, loving staff and or friends on hand to help their beloved pet over the Bridge. It’s so hard.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=Obiwan;8799271]
I don’t think you give animals enough credit for their intelligence. They are not stupid. They’re going to question why they are in a vet room alone, if they are normally with with their owner. Dogs, despite their domestication, are predators and that leaves then with a mind that gives them an ability to evaluate and make decisions. With (what seemed) simple abandon that luvdogz suggest you just don’t support your animals in their final moments was aghast to me. Clearly I have a different opinion. I’ve been there while human members were dying, and I figure I owe my animal counter-parts no less. Apparently I am in a minority. .[/QUOTE]

You continue to assume the vet staff is dragging the pet into an exam room and leaving them there. When we have a patient come in for euthanasia we put the client and the pet in the room together, then take the pet to the back the same as we would to weigh it or for a nail trim, blood draw, etc. The pets truly don’t realize the difference. If they’ll eat, we let them help clean out the fridge before they go. Oh, and it’s not a “regional” thing (where’s the eye roll emoji?) it’s a personal and individual decision. It is never appropriate to try and dictate how others should handle grief.

I can honestly say that the only people I judge are the ones like you, who think it’s ok to make others feel worse during their time of sorrow. Your post was hateful and unnecessary.

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=Kachina;8799425]
IAfter the decision was made, the vet stepped back and recommended gassing her for the sedation. The tech put the mask over her face which she didn’t mind and she fell asleep in my arms. Then the vet came in and I think injected the euth solution directly into her heart? He didn’t use a vein and she was so sound asleep that she had no reaction whatsoever. I’ve had kitties hiss at the pain of the tranq injection. Really hated that. The gas was so so peaceful. Can any of you comment on why this method of sedation isn’t used more frequently? [/QUOTE]

We try not to use this method if at all possible due to concern of waste anesthetic gas exposure for staff. Also, a lot of cats will go through a marked excitatory phase with this method of anesthetic induction

[pezk]

Can any of the vets comment on the animals that fight the sedation? Doesnt sound like it happens very often. Are there any warning signs in the personality of an animal that would predict the terrible result?

[SquishTheBunny]

Euthanyl solution can sting, which is often why a tranq or anesthetic is given first.

“Healthy” dogs often fight the injection somewhat, where usually the ones who are very ill just fall asleep. No patient is the same unfortunatley and vets try to do what they feel will be best - they don’t hiwever have a crystal ball.

[SquishTheBunny]

I often euthanize pets for clients that don’t wish to be there. They are 101% petted, talked to and put in a dog or cat bed for the procedure. How anyone could think otherwise just boggles my mind.

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=pezk;8799554]
Can any of the vets comment on the animals that fight the sedation? Doesnt sound like it happens very often. Are there any warning signs in the personality of an animal that would predict the terrible result?[/QUOTE]

The sedation we use is a propofol injection, which works in seconds and really can’t be fought the way other sedatives can. I’m in ER now and basically do the same as Pancakes detailed out.

Personally, I suspect that the ones that fight the sedation are in cases where they are being dosed as if we want them to wake up (sedation for a procedure) versus the ones who are sedated heavily because you don’t have to worry about damage to the brain or kidneys from low blood pressure. When I worked at a day practice we used Telazol for sedation, at twice the amount we would “normally” use, plus a high dose of Ace. Yes, it occasionally burned when given IM, but it did allow owners who were conflicted about staying or going to stay until the pet was asleep but not gone.

I don’t think you’re necessarily guaranteed a better experience with one vs. two injections, but I think the type and dose of the sedative can affect things a good bit.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=Obiwan;8797853]
Luvdogz, are you kidding me? Don’t be there while your dog is dying? Let this animal that you took on the obligation to love and care for, and did so for years, to have their last moments even more terrified by being alone in a cold room to die without mild comfort of family?[/QUOTE]

Obiwan, just out of curiosity, if Lovdogz or someone else, say your best friend, was standing in front of you with tears in their eyes after having to put their beloved pet to sleep and made the intensely personal decision not to be there, would you have said this, in person, to their face??? (The “are you kidding me, don’t be there while your dog is dying?”)

Or would you have taken a moment to think about what you were about to say and think that maybe that is a thought best kept to yourself?

Opinions are just fine. We all don’t need to know them from each and every other person at times…

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;8799682]
Obiwan, just out of curiosity, if Lovdogz or someone else, say your best friend, was standing in front of you with tears in their eyes after having to put their beloved pet to sleep and made the intensely personal decision not to be there, would you have said this, in person, to their face??? (The “are you kidding me, don’t be there while your dog is dying?”)

Or would you have taken a moment to think about what you were about to say and think that maybe that is a thought best kept to yourself?

Opinions are just fine. We all don’t need to know them from each and every other person at times…[/QUOTE]

Well said. Not to mention it isn’t like she can resurrect the dog so she can euth him in a manner Obi finds acceptable so the only reason to say something like that is to cause pain.

[Obiwan]

White, and Lauire, stop.

I typed that I was not going to continue the banter. It is overwhelming and not necessary to this thread that was once about the effects of using 2 vs 1 shot euth, and offering condolences. As off beat as my comment seems to have been at this point. As unreasonable as you think I am, continuing this here is something that I consider beyond disrespectful.

[Laurierace]

You have the corner on disrespectful on this thread. I am still waiting for your apology.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8799020]
OP, i am so sorry for your loss.

with the horses, i’ve found they’re usually mobile at least for a while, but are no longer there. i wonder if the brain functions differently, horses being prey - the ‘flight drive’ being the last thing to go.[/QUOTE]

That might be true - my vet explained to me that the neurons and nerves shut down in a particular order, with the optic nerve being the last to go (I think that’s what he said; it was late and we were waiting to bury Bodie, so I wasn’t listening probably as well as I should have been). After a particularly bad experience with one of my mares who refused to go down, he makes it practice now to do a double-dose of the Euthasol.

OP, I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ve had three horses put down, and one of them did not go easily. When you’re in that position, all you want is for it to go as well as it can.

[Pancakes]

[QUOTE=pezk;8799554]
Can any of the vets comment on the animals that fight the sedation? Doesnt sound like it happens very often. Are there any warning signs in the personality of an animal that would predict the terrible result?[/QUOTE]

It’s really hard to predict.

The ones that fight the sedation or propofol are the ones that are already in distress, i.e. ones whose brain is anxious for one reason or another. Truly sick animals just go very peacefully and quickly; the ones that are maybe not as sick, with compromised systems that the body is still trying to compensate for, with a lot of adrenaline going, are the ones that don’t go as smoothly. The ones that are distressed because they are disoriented, have brain tumors, have seizures, or other brain disorders are also in this category. The ones with severely compromised circulatory systems may not get the drugs as quickly to their brains so they may go through an excitatory phase.
All of those get a little acepromazine with the propofol, or they get something before hand… usually straight opioid pain medication or diazepam/midazolam. The “healthy” dogs with catastrophic trauma usually get pain medication before the decision is made to euthanize them and the ones that present for seizures or other issues usually get tranquilizers too. The ones that present for euthanasia where the problem has been going on and untreated are the ones that don’t go as easily and the ones that are the most frustrating. How I wish it was so easy to calm an animal and a family who are both so distressed…

I have met some people with very fragile psyches working in this field. I never know what their life has been like or how they deal with death. It is very hard to stand on the other side of the table and criticize their choice in how they want to say goodbye to their beloved family member or pet. If they want to be present, then fine. If they want to say goodbye and then leave, then fine. The animals are not alone when they go…they never are. The animals are being stroked, petted, talked to, reassured, and kept on comfy blankets when they go, just as if they would be if their owners were there. At least where I am that’s what we do… we have all been there ourselves, and we know what it’s like.

[Ruth0552]

Pancakes and Horsegal (and any other vets that commented on this thread that I missed), more vets should be like you.

Granted, last time I worked as a tech was almost 10 years ago, but at the time I think he used telazol, ace, or ket/val to sedate a pet before euthanasia. He almost always used a needle and syringe, and didn’t use propofol because it was too expensive. He would also leave drop-off euthanasia to when he had a spare minute, often at the end of the day. And for a while, when we ran out of the blue juice (I think is was fatal plus?) he used up an old, expired bottle of pink euthanasia solution. Needless to say, he went through staff like water. When one tech told him the pink bottle was expired, he said, so, what’s it going to do, kill them? NO you idiot. Not kill them. To this day I won’t let my current vet practice take my cats in the back because of how I saw pets treated by that vet.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Obiwan;8799700]
As unreasonable as you think I am, continuing this here is something that I consider beyond disrespectful.[/QUOTE]
More or less ‘beyond disrespectful’ than your original comment?

[Caligual]

My sincerest apologies to the OP, having to put down a dog is never easy, luckily my lab has quite a few years left in him but I couldn’t imagine having to be in that situation. I did some reading on euthanisation earlier this week and came across this thread on a google search, perhaps anyone else who stumbles into the thread in a similiar way will find this page as useful as I found it : http://www.karingalvet.com.au/our-services/euthanasia/ . Not to be too macabre or anything of the sort, I was talking to my dad and the topic of euthanisation came up and it made me a bit anxious knowing so little about it when it was a looming possibility. Hopefully this helps out someone in the same position in the future, cheers.

[LauraKY]

@Caligual

My sincerest apologies to the OP, having to put down a dog is never easy, luckily my lab has quite a few years left in him but I couldn’t imagine having to be in that situation. I did some reading on euthanisation earlier this week and came across this thread on a google search, perhaps anyone else who stumbles into the thread in a similiar way will find this page as useful as I found it : http://www.karingalvet.com.au/our-services/euthanasia/ . Not to be too macabre or anything of the sort, I was talking to my dad and the topic of euthanisation came up and it made me a bit anxious knowing so little about it when it was a looming possibility. Hopefully this helps out someone in the same position in the future, cheers.

Reported. Spam

[alabama]

@Alex and Bodie's Mom

That might be true - my vet explained to me that the neurons and nerves shut down in a particular order, with the optic nerve being the last to go (I think that’s what he said; it was late and we were waiting to bury Bodie, so I wasn’t listening probably as well as I should have been).

I think what you remember is probably true (re. the optic nerve). When I had to put my old gelding down last year, the last thing the vet did before he said he was gone was touch his eye ball. It kind of took me aback when he did it, but it seemed to be the final sign to him.