I dunno, she just swishes her tail and shifts a lot more when I don’t use the soap. I’m guessing because the soap slicks everything up and lessens the friction? She has always objected a little to having her teats messed with, ever since I got her as a yearling. She just seems a lot less annoyed when you slick her up instead.
Hand sanitizer pump, check! Haha, picked that up when I picked up the pool strips the other day.
Yup, I’ve been checking her in the mornings around 7 or 7:30 am lately, then again at her evening feeding. I’ll check her again this evening, so maybe I’ll see something different then.
How soon can you start seeing edema before actual labor? Do you usually see it or are there some that never develop it?
Edema is not a sign of labor. It is a sign of an overtaxed circulatory system from being heavily pregnant. A horse’s circulatory system is greatly added to by movement and heavily pregnant mares tend to not move a lot. I wouldn’t worry about that either way. pH and calcium are your friend.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;5825727]
Edema is not a sign of labor. It is a sign of an overtaxed circulatory system from being heavily pregnant. A horse’s circulatory system is greatly added to by movement and heavily pregnant mares tend to not move a lot. I wouldn’t worry about that either way. pH and calcium are your friend.[/QUOTE]
Amen, ask any woman who has had a baby about swelling in various places (no, not the ankles, or the hands) Don’t worry so much about the fescue issue, it’s been summer in the last 90 days, fescue is dormant in high heat (sounds like you are in a HOT area) and so she’s more likely been feasting on warmer season grasses lately and it’s the last 60-90 days that matter the most with fescue issues. Had a mare with a retained placenta due to fescue (we chalked it up to that anyway), and she was FINE so no reading internet horror stories either!
We had one mare get panicky as the foal emerged and start double barrell kicking out without warning. The BO cowered in as small a ball as possible, as she was between the mare’s hind end and the stall wall- not pulling, just observing. The mare quit as quickly as she began, and M wasn’t hit. Lucky duck.
Edema doesn’t predict labor.
As others have said, edema has nothing to do with labor. Meaningless in the quest to tell you when she will foal.
Your pH indicates you still have quite a ways to go.
I would not wash her bag every day. Totally pointless, and unnecessary to keep aggravating her.
It sounds like you are as ready as you can be, but you probably have more time to wait.
And remember, horses don’t have a “due date” – it’s very normal for her to go well past 340 days – mares do it all the time (it’s not even that uncommon for mares to go a year before foaling), so don’t stress about that.
Gads one of the best indicators we looked at were the wax plugs and here you’re washing and milking them off every day!
The vets I worked for told me to leave the mare alone-all that fiddling with her teats isn’t doing her any good. Leave those plugs on to keep the colostrum in and the seal good.
I’m no expert but the maiden mares I’ve seen took a long long time. Like you could tell for hours and ran out of popcorn and cigars long before the foal showed up.
You’re not going to miss it-my advice is to stop pestering her, let her relax and be comfortable and have her baby when she’s ready! LOL
Maiden mares really are quite unpredictable. Even the pH can go back and forth, and certainly they quite often go past 340 days. Here in NC the college breeding program was averaging 345 days with a herd of mostly QH mares, the maidens tend to hold onto those babies longer. One I stayed at the barn for went to 364 days.
More thumb twiddling. Her pH is below 8.4 officially, but above 7.8 on the little color indicator chart. I wish I had actual real pH paper and a more precise range. She’s not a happy camper tonight because one of the jackass geldings busted into the paddock while she was up in her stall eating and let her donkey friend out. I was up at the house working on a project, and when I came back down to let her out, I found the gelding in the paddock and the donkey nowhere to be found. Miss Donk is practicing being evasive on 40 acres in the dark, so I’m hanging it up till the morning.
A slight pH drop isn’t something to be alarmed about, is it? Also, I inspected last night’s sample that was in the fridge when I was getting out the tools for tonight’s sample, and suddenly realized I had a little white, waxy ball in the bottom of the cup. Thinking that might have been a waxy plug that I just didn’t notice right away? So now what? How long does it actually take for a pH to drop from 8.4 to 6.2 and what does it mean now that she’s slowly decreasing?
I think you are not quite clear on the point of milk testing.
By testing Ca+ & pH you are “predicting” the time of foaling because mares are notoriously difficult to predict. Maidens even more so.
The rise in Ca+ ALONG WITH a drop in pH to 7 or BELOW indicates that usually (not always, but very, very often) foaling will occur in 6-24 hrs.
But as to when that happens, it’s really up to the individual mare. Maybe at 320 days gestation, maybe at 385 days (or longer). Just no telling.
I have one mare who will foal with 4 -6 hrs of a pH drop…she goes like lightening. And on gal who posted here on COTH swore her pony mare had a pH below 7 for 3-4 DAYS before she foaled.
But that is unusual.
You can just look at the milk and when it starts to get thicker, whiter & more opaque, you can start testing the pH more often.
I use just plain pool testing strips I got a Wal-Mart – they have both pH and water “hardness” (Ca+).
Oh – and regarding washing her teats – don’t. I try to do it just prior to foaling, but not before then. But I will use a warm, wet towel or washcloth and hold it up against the teat for 2-3 minutes…DON’T rub, just hold it up there. Help the milk come down and relax the mare. I think it feels good to most of them.
No, I’ve got the idea. But I’m a chemist (like, literally, that’s what my bachelor’s is in). All this vagueness when I’m used to 0.1 difference on my pH strips is frustrating. I know it’s not 8.4, and I know it’s not 7.8, and I’m just nitpicky is all. I get that it’s supposed to be a prediction, I just want quantifiable results every step of the way.
Right now the hardness looks like it’s a 250+ ppm color. pH is starting to drop, but it’s not below 7 for sure. Milk is cloudy, but not opaque. I have “Pooltime 6-way” pool strips from Home Depot. Tried Walmart and Lowe’s first, but Walmart was out or their peeps couldn’t find it for me, and Lowe’s didn’t have strips that tested for hardness. Pooltime 6-way was all Home Depot had, and it’s working so far.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5828586]
Oh – and regarding washing her teats – don’t. I try to do it just prior to foaling, but not before then. But I will use a warm, wet towel or washcloth and hold it up against the teat for 2-3 minutes…DON’T rub, just hold it up there. Help the milk come down and relax the mare. I think it feels good to most of them.
Just don’t get it too hot <g>[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I stopped washing her teats. I dunno why they put this info in the foaling book if you’re not actually supposed to do so. But now that I’ve stopped doing it, she’s getting that black gummy crud buildup that they get around their genitals when you don’t clean them. She’s been kind of a little piglet while out there, and stays mud covered from rolling in the mud next to the water trough where it overflows occasionally if I’m not watching. Should I be concerned about how much colostrum I may be taking by milking out about a cc per day to test it? One of my vets already has a bag of colostrum on backup in case we need it…
I thought for a second she was going to go last night at the last check before bed because she started rolling and then rolling again, but turns out she was just faking me out. Again. And then proceeded to knock over my muck cart because she felt like walking OVER it instead of around it while I was using it to muck where she has been pooping inside the barn. That’s a new quirk… she has started preferring to walk inside her stall and poop in the back corners instead of pooping in her paddock.
Thanks to everybody so far on the advice! Haha, in the beginning I wanted her to wait as long as possible to have it, but now that I’m ready, I’m playing the hurry up and wait game. At least she’s being super sweet in the meantime and not her occasionally bratty self. I’m pretty sure she’s about to go any day now, despite the lack of pH drop. Her hiney muscles are getting really, really loose. If you poke right next to her tail, she’s jello squishy squishy, and if you look at her vulva, she’s a lot darker pink/reddish than the soft pink she was a few weeks ago.
Usually when we drop below 8.0 pH we have 6-12 days to go. Some drop fast (1-2 days) and some creep (10 days+). You’re not hurting her by milking out a little at a time, because what the test is looking for IS colostrum. She doesn’t have any yet, hence signaling baby is not coming yet. The properties of colostrum are calcium 500+ and pH of ~6.2, so while they can foal without colostrum present, it’s pretty unlikely. We’ve had mares drip for 2-3 days and still have plenty of colostrum for baby, so don’t worry :). I know it sounds gross, but tasting the “milk” is very helpful. At first it’s kinda salty and icky, and I go “bleah”. This equals probably 2-3 weeks to go. Then when it gets bland and fairly tasteless, getting a little closer. Then when you taste it and go “mmmmmmm”, you are much closer! LOL Usually by then it looks like real milk or a yellowish thick and sticky concoction. Foaling out 4-6 mares a year makes you really good at knowing how close you are. The first few were torture!
[QUOTE=Signature;5828759]
I know it sounds gross, but tasting the “milk” is very helpful. At first it’s kinda salty and icky, and I go “bleah”. This equals probably 2-3 weeks to go. Then when it gets bland and fairly tasteless, getting a little closer. Then when you taste it and go “mmmmmmm”, you are much closer! LOL Usually by then it looks like real milk or a yellowish thick and sticky concoction. [/QUOTE]
^This^
I express a couple drops into my clean hand…look at it, and taste. Looks a bit lemonade yellow and has a salty taste first (I never thought icky…just salty), and just as Signature says…eventually gets thick, sticky milky and tastes sweet…that’s when you are close.
This sort of spot-check is quick, takes just a couple of drops, and saves pool strips and bother until you are truly close.
[QUOTE=Signature;5828759]
At first it’s kinda salty and icky, and I go “bleah”. This equals probably 2-3 weeks to go. Then when it gets bland and fairly tasteless, getting a little closer.[/QUOTE]
What about when you’ve been tasting it for a couple weeks now and it’s no longer salty? She hasn’t been salty for at least a week now. It’s really just tasteless, and while it isn’t sticky persay, it is a little viscous, just not opaque. Still lemonade with white suspension in it at last testing.
Leave it to my lovely brat to continue to have her own ideas about everything! :lol:
In other news, her better feed FINALLY came in after an extended delay, so she can get off of the other stuff. At least she’ll be completely switched over to the Ultium Growth and ready for the feed bump to the higher amount once baby comes if she does indeed hold out on me that many days longer…
Eh, they can still hang in the bland range for a while. It all depends on the mare, and of course we don’t do that many maidens since all of ours have had many babies now (but we have one this spring coming up), but you should see a change in taste once it becomes more white and looks like milk out of your fridge! I hate to make a guess on time because I can’t look at her myself (that and she’ll prove me wrong), but it does sound like you are probably 8-12 days away or so? <wince> sorry
My mare was at 6.2 for at least 80 hours this year. Not sure the exact time she dropped to that level as it happened between the morning and evening checks. Sso far all your test is telling you for sure is you are not close yet. The testing can’t tell you when the foal will come for sure but it is pretty reliable about when it won’t come which is where you are still. I would be sleeping through the night in my bed with those readings.
