Uh oh - REAL Sports with Bryant Gumble

[JSwan]

CatOnLap - I apologize for not being clear in my writing. I mean the government of those countries - not the people. Canadians can indeed pressure their government to stop the importation of horses for slaughter.

If I had the article handy I’d refer you to it - but Canadian plants have expanded and added staff - to the delight of local jobless residents. Everyone has to pay the light bill. One reopened but I’d be hard pressed to tell you where it is - so feel free to disregard or double check me.

Those two nations have a great deal of influence on American politics, as do we on theirs. Free trade agreements do have their down side; perhaps this is one of them. I’d prefer that our nations herd is handled within our own borders, and only shipped across them if that is the shortest route (states closest to borders). Instead - we’ve got all sorts of animals traveling horrendous distances, mostly because here in the US, no one wants a plant in their back yard - development pressures make it impossible for even the best run plant to continue operating once new residents start making complaints.

It’s a real problem where I live, let me tell you.

[DickHertz]

@county;3226624

Once again Dick you have no clue what your talking about or maybe your just a liar. Not once have I ever said I know anyone who breeds and raises horses for slaughter.

Ok, maybe you said you know someone who buys weanlings, raises them, and sends them to the killer. Same thing.

[CatOnLap]

I am aware of the expansion of facilities in Canada to handle the influx of US horseflesh and several different editorial positions on those facts. I think you have to live in the areas to truly understand this part of it. I am not pro slaughter, I am neither anti- slaughter. I see the adding of facilities to handle horses at these smaller plants as good for our economy, good for the agricultural industries they serve locally and good for Canadian horse owners, perhaps even good for their horses, since a proportion of horse from here will be slaughtered-that’s a fact, jack. Their appearance coincides with a general economic upswing and a return of population to a lot of rural areas in Canada and they are not purely horse abbatoirs, but mostly existing butchers who have added facilities to handle horses on the killing floor. Some are plants that have been idle for several years due to economic depression in the area and have now re-opened.

In the days of my youth, we had local abbatoirs to handle any animal that needed killing, and generally were attached rendering plants of some sort, and the animal didn’t have to travel more than a few hours in from the country. So the animal was shot or bolted, (sometimes at home by a travelling abbatoir!) the carcass was butchered and rendered and there was no waste and no cost to the owner, perhaps a small proceeds from the poundage. This is a very good and necessary part of animal husbandry, if done on a small scale with thoughtfully designed facilities to increase worker and animal comfort and safety (the two go hand in hand. No one wants to deal with a panic stricken food animal) My neighbour has employed the services of a travelling butcher of this type to slaughter the steer and pigs he raises for his own family. He comes in a stock trailer fully equipped to slaughter and butcher right there. I don’t know if he would do a horse, but if there were a kennel needing the meat, that would be my first choice. The local wild animal rescues would also benefit.

As for Canada influencing the USA, I’d say thats a patronizing pipe dream. Follow the money- the US controls it all. We are not even your main trade partner anymore!

I agree about the social pressure in the USA- that is what has caused this mess!

[county]

No Dick actually its not even close I really think you need to educate yourself on these topics a little bit you make yourself look rather ignorant with some of your posts.

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=county;3227687]
No Dick actually its not even close I really think you need to educate yourself on these topics a little bit you make yourself look rather ignorant with some of your posts.[/QUOTE]

Post #50 in this thread

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=3209162#post3209162

[JSwan]

Ok - I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight - I have the same impression as you.

The traveling abattoir is not completely dead. (no pun intended). However,where I live, the regulatory requirements are extraordinary. Now, this is just for small animals such as poultry. But small farmers are trying very very hard to have viable means of on-site processing in order to provide their customers with a true, farm raised product.

It’s a niche market. I don’t know how to feed 300 million people using that model. In some European countries, it seems their residents don’t generally have qualms about a butcher on Main Street. In the US - we don’t even let our dogs in restaurants.

So I think there is a great deal of cultural influence that exerts itself. Americans are very NIMBY; which concentrates industry and farming. They like nature, but don’t want it crapping in their front yard. But they don’t want you killing Bambi - but if Bambi eats their roses… They like farms, but god forbid the wind changes or that farmer will be ridden out of town on a rail. They like the jobs that industry brings, but not in their gated communities.

I’m making generalizations - but you get the picture.

@CatOnLap;3227614

I am aware of the expansion of facilities in Canada to handle the influx of US horseflesh and several different editorial positions on those facts. I think you have to live in the areas to truly understand this part of it. I am not pro slaughter, I am neither anti- slaughter. I see the adding of facilities to handle horses at these smaller plants as good for our economy, good for the agricultural industries they serve locally and good for Canadian horse owners, perhaps even good for their horses, since a proportion of horse from here will be slaughtered-that’s a fact, jack. Their appearance coincides with a general economic upswing and a return of population to a lot of rural areas in Canada and they are not purely horse abbatoirs, but mostly existing butchers who have added facilities to handle horses on the killing floor. Some are plants that have been idle for several years due to economic depression in the area and have now re-opened.

In the days of my youth, we had local abbatoirs to handle any animal that needed killing, and generally were attached rendering plants of some sort, and the animal didn’t have to travel more than a few hours in from the country. So the animal was shot or bolted, (sometimes at home by a travelling abbatoir!) the carcass was butchered and rendered and there was no waste and no cost to the owner, perhaps a small proceeds from the poundage. This is a very good and necessary part of animal husbandry, if done on a small scale with thoughtfully designed facilities to increase worker and animal comfort and safety (the two go hand in hand. No one wants to deal with a panic stricken food animal) My neighbour has employed the services of a travelling butcher of this type to slaughter the steer and pigs he raises for his own family. He comes in a stock trailer fully equipped to slaughter and butcher right there. I don’t know if he would do a horse, but if there were a kennel needing the meat, that would be my first choice. The local wild animal rescues would also benefit.

As for Canada influencing the USA, I’d say thats a patronizing pipe dream. Follow the money- the US controls it all. We are not even your main trade partner anymore!

I agree about the social pressure in the USA- that is what has caused this mess!

[Moderator_1]

Avoid the back-and-forth personal commentary and stick to the main topic.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[county]

Dick what about post #50? I honestly have no idea what you mean?

[gallupgirl]

[QUOTE=CatOnLap;3227216]
.

Just to be clear, I am not “pro slaughter”. My elderly horses are living out their years with me. .[/QUOTE]

I have FIVE (5) count them FIVE elderly horses living out their lives with me and I am still very much pro-slaughter.

I think people should have a CHOICE on this matter.

[VentDependent]

Bute IS like aspirin. It is an NSAID.

Please, DO NOT take Bute if you are a human. It can cause severe liver and kidney damage-the kind of side effect that goes un-noticed until it’s too late (for example, you take bute, you feel better, but meanwhile your liver has lost 40% of its capacity…which you don’t notice for many years until your liver has continued to age over your lifetime)

Also, it is not appropriate for use in dogs as it has severe GI side effects and we have much better things like Rimadyl and tramadol nowadays

[Jessi_P]

I wrote this out for another post and after I was done writing it didnt seem as germane to the OP as it should have been. But after J Swan’s post about “NIMBY” Americans it seems as if it will fit here:

In France, arent the blue horse’s heads over the door to represent the butcher shops (abbatoir -sp?) as our striped barber poles represent the barber?

What is new to America as a civilization is the lack of the longer working history that other countries have with the horse. In a larger % of our time as a country (lets say its been about 4-500 years being generous) the horse has been ONLY a pet animal in the past 50 years or so. Other cultures with longer relationships with the horse have seen the horse as a necessary livestock animal for a larger % of it’s relationship with the horse. For centuries horses were work animals - pulling a mill stone, carriage, plow, coal cart, being a means of transportation etc. And a very practical part of that is what to do with the horse when it no longer served its purpose. We truly live in a disposable society today - if we dont like it, throw it away and get another one. However, more practical cultures would get every use possible from the animal, including slaughtering it, using horse hide for leathers, horse hair, horse gut, feeding the hounds with horsemeat, and so on. In times of great famine I imagine the horses themselves were often eaten as a means of survival. America is a very young nation and the horse is quite romanticized here where in other countries the horse is seen in a more practical light.

No bone to pick or anything, just a passing observation.

[JSwan]

Jessi P -

I hope folks read your post. Indeed, there are vast cultural differences between Americans and European countries. Not saying that everything in Europe is hunky dory and aren’t they just fabulous; because each nation has its own troubles and challenges; and each culture is unique.

But yes, if you question those of us who have lived in or were born in foreign lands, or have extensive contact with foreign nationals or have traveled a lot, you’ll find there is a different perspective.

Heck - I notice cultural differences when I travel in the US! And look at Canada - in one place I visited I could have sworn I was in England. In other - if it wasn’t for the very old style French - I could have sworn I was in northern France!

[CatOnLap]

we live on an island, and it is said , if our transportation stops for any reason, we have only a 3 day food supply for our half million residents. Our local councils are very much encouraging people to turn their backyards, patios, etc, into gardens. Not so much livestock, but there is still law in our books allowing city dwellers to keep a handful of poultry. Even if everyone raises one crop of potatoes in a barrel on their patio, it helps.

The travelling abbatoir is a good thing.
I am a meat eater. I have eaten horse and it is very good- like elk meat. Better than deer or bear or moose.

I believe people should be able to make their own choice as well. But around here the vegans are swiftly gaining ground. I work in a nutritional clinic. Guess who are the ones coming in with protein deficiency, vit B12 deficiency, iron deficiency, brittle bones, etc? Vegans. Yet they sit there and pass judgment on MY eating habits. Hell, I am not costing our public health system thousands of dollars in treatment costs because of my diet!

I see the banning of horse slaughter with two views: one, the entire industry from transport on forward needs overhaul and regulation, and banning slaughter of horses is one way to call attention to it.

but my fear is this:

the banning of horse slaughter in your country is the thin edge of the vegan wedge. Soon, all animal consumption will be banned by militant vegans, all slaughter will be banned, and the subsequent nutritional deficiencies will so weaken the populace that they will succumb to some sort of epidemic. Those countries still eating a variety of animal proteins will take over.

[/tongue in cheek]

[county]

I’ve never figured out why the whole issue is a big deal really if one doesn’t want to eat horse or sell a horse to slaughter then don’t. If one wants to then do so, I’ve just yet to hear a logical reason to ban it.

[moonriverfarm]

I think the real issue here is HOW they are slaughteresd more than the fact that they are. If you think of horses as simply livestock, it wouldn’t bother you to have them slaughtered either way. Those of us who think of horses more as companion animals who we develop relationships with are bothered by the way they are carelessly thrown out when they no longer serve their humans economically.

[county]

There slaughtered just like any other livestock. If one doesn’t like the system by all means don’t use it, if you eat meat and buy it then you support it be it what ever species you use. Some people don’t like cattle slaughter for instance they shouldn’t use it then.

[moonriverfarm]

No county, just because I don’t believe in the system for horses does not mean I dont believe in the system for cows. Sorry, but in this country it IS different. The fact that you cannot see that shows me what kind of person you are.
Just because I eat beef does not mean I condone horses being slaughtered in the same manner. And just FYI, if the only meat available was horse meat, I’d be a vegetarian. I have that much empathy for domestic animals.

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=moonriverfarm;3235273]
No county, just because I don’t believe in the system for horses does not mean I dont believe in the system for cows. Sorry, but in this country it IS different. The fact that you cannot see that shows me what kind of person you are.
Just because I eat beef does not mean I condone horses being slaughtered in the same manner. And just FYI, if the only meat available was horse meat, I’d be a vegetarian. I have that much empathy for domestic animals.[/QUOTE]

County fails to realize that horses are not raised for slaughter in this country…cows and pigs are.

[county]

And some people fail to realize that we export meat of many differant species horse just being one of them. The world is just a tad bigger then the U.S. Personally I’m not in favor of dropping the import/export system we use if it were the people herre would scream the loudest. But as I’ve said if you don’t want to sell a horse for what ever reason by all means don’t how hard hard can it be to figure out?

BTW MRF your posts show me the type person you are also. One that has no problem with slaughter as long as its something you like to eat yourself and find something wrong with anyone that has a differant taste.

[I_m_EBO]

I believe that it doesn’t matter what animal you’re killing and slaughtering: All of them deserve respect and kind treatment, which they don’t get in the factory farming set-up followed by most in the U.S. today. It says much about our society that the overwhelming majority don’t know how animals are raised and killed. If our society had the information that most of us do have, would it make a difference? Don’t know, but I can only hope so.

I take hope from the emerging “greeness” that our country seems to be experiencing right now. While the unevolved will always remain among us, just maybe conditions for most of us will, in fact, improve.

In the meantime, I will do what I can to end horse slaughter and the export of horses out of the country. I’ll also ask questions of purveyors of red meat, poultry and fish. Some of them will be considered rude, and they’ll think, “She just doesn’t understand.” They wish.:winkgrin: