Absolutely. So many tools in the bo!. Learning about them, and more importantly learning about when they may or may not be appropriate is what it is about. I’ve been taught by an Anke student and by one of Kottas’s proteges and I’ve learned from them both. And interestingly neither approach was strictly correct for my horse and me. But I hope never to not learn or to condemn without understanding.
Great post hototrot! I agree! I have a very similar background in training from both sides and other sides too. It does free you up a lot to have many different tools to work with. That is why it is so frustrating to try to explain one side or the other when others are soooooo stuck on one side only. Thanks for your post!!!
i am not sure where the idea come that following the traditional, classical ODG path is closeminded.
actually you have to be pretty think skinned and open minded to follow that path becuase you will be ridiculed and beaten over the head with the latest gadget or toprider.
i guess for my money, i will listen/read/follow those that i know trained many many many horses and who spent their entire life doing it.
i find it somewhat amazing that folks that dont have this type/length of expereince think that they know better than the OGS! that to me is the height of … idont know what…
and for me it is an immediate turn off when someone is so closed minded to slam the ODGs or the traditional way of training.
i am lucky enough to work with a classical trainer (trained w/theodorescu) … and i LOVE it. every single thing makes sense. the nature of the horse (even th e modern “super” horse in our stable) is always taken into consideration. there is no crank and spank and no timelines. we do the work that needs doing for as long as it needs being done.
and this trainers FEI horse are awesome. really really a joy to watch.
i might entertain the thought that someone knows more and better that the ODG if they had a lifetime of correct work behind them - but at that point wouldnt they too be an ODG?
(and sabine - i think ODG stands for Old Dressage Gods too! :))
I had always understood ODG’s to mean “Old Dead Guys”. This is the first I’ve heard that some read it as “Old Dressage gods.” (wouldn’t that be abbreviated ODg’s?) :winkgrin:
Wild Burbon from Kentucky …isn’t that the name of that dog he got from the KY dog rescue?
mbm I agree with you. I was taught and I thought “outside the box” for 24 years. I finally found someone to teach me “inside the box” and I’m not coming out anytime soon!
ODG’s
What everybody seems to forget about ODG’s is the fact that there are still many people alive and kicking who have trained with these ODG’s for years. And just to put it simple, these ODG’s also had a very big toolbox at the time they had to guide their students to the Olympic Gold Medal.:yes:
IMHO the 1.000.000 $ question is why did they suddenly change their minds.
Homard, lobster, its all the same delicious thing.
I think some of you need to remember that you are upper level riders and as such you can begin exploring outside the box. I think that for jo shmo amateur rider whith no foundation to speak of, that exploration can result in a really bad deal for the horse.
I say, learn how to ride per the ODG, when you have mastered that, then you should have the theoritical knowledge and riding experience to venture out. But have the discipline to learn the traditional way first.
Especially since, when we speak of the modern horse, we are not speaking of 99% of the horses jo shmo amateur rider has in its backyard.
What are the problems folks post: horse wont bend, horse wont half halt, horse wont take this or that lead, horse stops, horse wont stop. Who is usually at fault? The rider.
I think recently we had a very heated discussion between two very accomplished riders: Gigi and Lesley about the use of the hand. It got very passionate, but we got through it all a bit the better for it. We have had really interresting discussions about the curb, and its role in FEI riding, etc… and there are definitely different views being expressed. However, it does not degenerate as it can here because there is always a few to jump in and redirect for the sake of the knowledge being shared, and no one walks away feeling slighted. At least, that’s the goal.
And Horsedance, you must realize the vast difference in educational opportunities in Europe and here. It makes it that much more delicate.
And, perhaps the ODGs you mention used deep and very deep but I think rk to the extreme shown today is a diffrent ball of wax. And it is that that they object to. Even Sjef said that what he was doing was not what shulteis-Baumert (spel) was doing.
And this is not an rk thread. It a WE MISS THE UDB thread, so lets please not have a fight.
i dont understand why it is so bad for a trainer to find a better way and then stick to it and then, becuase they believe so much in what they are doing, take the time to let others know to.
also, if my trainer is any example, there are folks out there that follow the book so to speak and dont take the horse out behind the tool shed for special work just becuase a ribbon is to be had.
also, just becuase some traienrs do do that doesnt make the traditional methods incorrect or wrong. they do work. i see it each and every day.
Whoa, whoa, whoa…back up a minute. I got the impression that some of the members here were talking about the general attitude of UDBB being closed minded. And I disagreed…we have plenty of posters who, right or wrong, offer information that is considered off the perfect path. Non of them dissed the odg’s. Nobody is saying the odg’s are wrong. They are saying that NEVER doing anything that you can’t look up in a book somewhere is closed minded.
I LOVE THE ODG’S but…there are times, with a re-train, or poorly trained, or spoiled (in my horse’s case) when you have to do what works…and I am not talking about ‘R’ !
And as much as I hate to admit it…I actually agree with Theo…those guys were horsemen, not walking quotes.
Oh boy, I think I’ve been here too long :lol:
Yes
Sad thing is, Horsedances, most of the people here have only read about the ODG’s. If they rode with them, it was for a few weeks here and there. A lot of the meaning has been lost in translation or misinterprated. Is that obvious or what?
ps. by “here” I mean the US, not this board.
see, this is what i dont get… i would be willing to bet that whatever issue you are having has been written about by one ODG or another… we are dealing with horses… while they are lovely lovely animals thay arent that different one to another… yes, they each have their issues but some other horse has had the same issue and the classical /traditional methods have an answer to the issue.
what i see happening (not directed at you jmc ) is that 90% of all horses issues are the riders!!
just becuase you havent read it doenst mean that it hasnt been written or talked about or address by an ODG!
(they rode and trained for their entire lives (70 years? avg maybe?) - training 100’s and 100’s of horses… Maybe 1000’s of horses… and we have many ODGs… some how i doubt that there is a problem that they havent seen/addressed. )
sorry edited becuase my spell checker isnt working…
and to say that there is a book by Suenig that is all about “issues” it lists an issue and then the solution. and he goes theu many issues. its one of the most useful books i have read.
hee hee…actually it is my fault…but I’m learning
okay, can you tell me please what it is that you think that the ODGs do that we are missing? I know very well that riding and training is not perfect all the time… but i get so sick of these posts that sublty or not so subtly say that if i witnessed what the ODGs did i would be shocked.,… and that as an american i suck and am ill educated.
lots of good info- and no fighting yet- jeez- must be that good influence those UDBBers have…:LOL!!
I think Karoline is right- as often- in that you have to have the foundation of the ODGs and once you have mastered that and riding well- you can, should and have to begin to train the horse- rather than just ride the horse.
Once training- you need the tool box- there are lots of great tools in there and those that condem one or the other tool are usually the ones that have not used that tool and therefore just have an ‘opinion’ about it.
All tools don’t work on all horses - therefore one must think creatively and maintain always the utmost horsemanship.
Now- back to UDBB- I recall a mass banning last summer- which was sad and painful- and since that time I don’t go there anymore- (sp can’t go there anymore… Sometimes I have missed it- but very often I find the discussions stifling and individual contributors banging their heads against the wall because the typical gang won’t ‘allow’ a certain view.
I do feel that there is a certain ‘looking down’ on those that leave the proverbial 2x4 sandbox and think outside of the walls…
So I have found COTH very refreshing- if at times a tad rougher- because you can totally say what you mean- without fear that you will get the knife…
Jmc, I think you have a great spirit!
yeah, the mass banning sucked… it is too bad that some people dont know how to play nice or to not get personal and attack people… plus there were some that were so obbssed about UDBB that they were plotting all sort of shenanigans.
i cant believe that the facts keep getting twisted…
whatever facts you are referring to- I doubt you have the full picture- or anyone for that matter- except for the board owner.
Thanks sabryant!