I was not thinking along those lines at all, mbm. I have no idea what the ODG’s did to their horses. I was 7 years with an instructor who was in training with an ODG for 11 years. She did not teach me f/d/o, nor did she ride that way herself. She did teach me forward and down…down so far that if the nose touched the sand it was still not down enough. I do think that a lot of what has been written by the ODG’s has been lost in translation or misinterprated.
ok
mbm-i should be clear, too-i wasn’t referring to you.
And furthermore, this ODG is a very much alive guy living here in the US but was obieritler (sorry sp) at the SRS for years before he moved here.
This is so funny
I do think that a lot of what has been written by the ODG’s has been lost in translation or misinterprated.
Last week I heard several top-trainers and riders (who wrote these books and/or articles) say exactly the same. Many words can’t be translated from German or Dutch into English and vice versa.
Durchlassigkeit, schwung, gedragen zijn, smakelijk aan het bit etc… try to translate these words and it doesn’t give you what the Germans and Dutch exactly mean with these words.
es sei denn das translater den Sport versteht, der weiß, was sie etwas nennen würden, das viele Bedeutungen haben könnte
just because a word doest have a direct translation doesnt mean it cant be defined and translated correctly. and the person whose books is translated should make sure that their words are translated correctly.
i am riding with as close to an ODG as I am going to get here and everything he says i understand, or, if not he can get the idea across no problem. there hasn’t so far, been anything that is startling - there have been small things cleared up but nothing huge. nor is this trainer not what you would think. he is kind and gentle and patient. and very very talented. (i am blessed)
i just don’t think that there is this huge error in the texts that means that we (in the US) understand dressage that incorrectly.
yes there are things that got missed but really if the rider is really paying attention experimenting and reading and learning they will figure out what is missing all to soon.
but that doesn’t make the ODGs wrong or bad or what have you (or am i missing what you are trying to say??)
yes, of course-
you must be fluent in german(and now…dutch…so you can understand their old masters too)in order to advance in dressage…to make it to the inner circle, becasue speaking and understanding english(especially american english) makes you inferior to these old and new gods of dressage…(where is the rolling eyes emoticon?)
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
here ya go :rolleyes: 
And this is why I love and miss UDB and await its return. We simply do not have these kinds of circular and rabid arguments there.
check it out- it’s true…
Nope that is not true…and I can relate that some of you get sour with these statements…but I hate to say- you all have subscribed to an expensive sport- put in the time and save one vacation to go to Germany and /or Holland and /or Denmark and ride for 2 weeks in a pro environment- and you will feel like someone gave you an injection of some strange serum of awareness, feel, passion and commitment. I was born there and got it from my infancy into my leaving the country- with very horsey parents and all- but I can only report- that everytime I go home- it feels like I am reconnecting to a major power source of real riding…sorry- I am not American and I can’t say it better- but it is true…
There is something about the popularity of the sport - how many folks over there ride dressage- how the ‘old’ rules are always upheld to a degree that is not known here…from when you enter the arena and ask permission to do so- to many other details…I am not a good enough writer to explain it all - but it is true.
So please don’t be bitter- but just maybe check into some way or form of getting exposure at least for a couple of days…and see if it works for you!
Yes but if I go to France and ride with the Henriquet, Colonel Carde or Phillip Karl, I will get something very different then what the German, Deutch, etc… (well some of them) are doing, wont I - and yet it will have enthusiasm, passion, vigor and everything else you mention.
And if I go and spend 3 months with Debbie or Hilda, Gigi or Steven, are you saying that I wont get my money’s worth?
There are many bad riders in Europe, as I was shocked to see the last time I was in Germany (last year) and visited a dressage barn “Kronenhof” in Lagen. The funny story is I am stuck in Frankfurt and asking the cab driver to find me a dressage barn. 150 euros later. still nothing so I direct him to the hotel. In a suburb. Thank you United. Check with the receptionist. And oh surprise there is a dressage barn right behind the hotel. I could have saved 150 euros. Walked over and made a general nuisance of myself. Beautiful horses. A flotilla of single horse Brenderup looking trailers. And great facilities. But. Lovely ladies, upper level horses and plenty of position defects and draw reins. One horse ridden by a young woman in draw reins doing extravagant half pass in trot and completely off. A day in the life of a barn.
Owner was great however.
Give me mbm’s barn any day.
did I tell you to just plop of the plane and find the first dressage barn behind the hotel??? :/) that’s a funny story- and you shouldn’t mention it here- sounds a little embarrassing to me…
maybe better for you to stay in MBM’s barn then…at least you know what to expect…
I have ridden in the US most of my life and learned a lot. Yet, I acknowledge that there is a truth in what Sabine says. There is a whole culture surrounding equestrian activities in Europe that is missing in most of the US. You can ride for weeks with BNT in the US (and I have) and you won’t get it. You can spend a weekend at the dumpy little inn with a lively bar across the street from the auction hall in Verden when an auction is in session and if you shut up and listen you will learn a lot. You will meet people and see things you’d never have access to in the US. They are open and excited to share their knowledge and equestrian heritage.
As Americans, we like to think we can do anything. Maybe we can. But why work at re-inventing the wheel when we could learning from what already exists and go from there? It isn’t condescention to say this, it is fact. Instead many riders settle for having pictures spoon fed to them from the internet. But it is real life experiences improve education :yes:
what does ridingbarns in europe have to do this? i am confused… maybe i missed something.
who wouldn’t want to go for a (working) holiday at a wonderful training facility in europe? i would LOVE to go . i wish we had that dressage-y culture here.
it could be that i am just lost - this conversation has been all over the place.
i think the last point i was trying to make was that just because a word cant be translated directly doesn’t mean we in the US are ijits and cant ride. nor does it mean that the ODGs lied about what they wrote about.
(and caroline - i agree - my barn rocks - and i might just learn something 
)
I have ridden in the US most of my life and learned a lot. Yet, I acknowledge that there is a truth in what Sabine says. There is a whole culture surrounding equestrian activities in Europe that is missing in most of the US. You can ride for weeks with BNT in the US (and I have) and you won’t get it. You can spend a weekend at the dumpy little inn with a lively bar across the street from the auction hall in Verden when an auction is in session and if you shut up and listen you will learn a lot. You will meet people and see things you’d never have access to in the US. They are open and excited to share their knowledge and equestrian heritage.
As Americans, we like to think we can do anything. Maybe we can. But why work at re-inventing the wheel when we could learning from what already exists and go from there? It isn’t condescention to say this, it is fact. Instead many riders settle for having pictures spoon fed to them from the internet. But it is real life experiences improve education :yes:
now that’s what I meant to say and just couldn’t get it out right, thanks NHWR!! you hit the proverbial…on the head. Key is - it’s not uppity, it’s not preaching from the pulpit…it’s reallly down to earth dressage…if you can listen- you can really learn a lot and be inspired…if you do it often enough- it can become part of you…
I haven’t been on since yesterday and only just now saw about your dogs, Zinnia - has the basenji come back yet? I’m so sorry! I hope everything is okay. Please let us know.
See, I find this very interesting. I don’t take any position on training other than it has to benefit the athletic ability of my horse and that MOST IMPORTANTLY she has to be happy. Before the FEI wrote in stone the concept of a “Happy Athelete” which by the way they take extremely seriously, it was my ultimate, over-riding dogma regarding my neurotic, terrrified, rather dangerous mare.
My trainer (who ran the stable where we liveried) has a broad background, training first with Molly Sieveright (Talland) and then with Anke. Along side this I was also training with a man who spent years at the SRS and takes clinics in the States; an absolute Kottas protege. I learned a huge amount from them both. But neither approach was strictly correct for my mare-- they BOTH inculcated problems in her for later down the line. And looking at pictures one can see that she wasn’t over her back properly. And yes, my riding was perhaps not the best-- but that is what instruction is for. We did progress but with that time bomb ticking away underneath us. She DID have serious problems specific to her. I have ridden under the tuteledge of a list 1 judge for the last year who also judges Stateside from time to time. She’s ridden for her country in both show jumping and dressage and written several books and I guess qualifies in my mind as an Ageless Live Gal. And her emphasis is on what is so often ignored-- the basics. And to me this is purely classical and you can’t skip steps to get there. An active rear end over a supple swinging back into a receiving contact. And over the course of the last year we have both rebuilt ourselves–constantly working on my bio-mechanics enabling my horse’s bio-mechanics, and the scales of training. Because it became obvious that the last two trainers attacked what they saw as problems-- BOTH of them–with techniques and didn’t sort out the foundations. And no matter what path you might want to follow with your training, you have to have these basics in hand. So when I read of stretching like that my heart sings! Beautiful! And NOW my little blond bombshell is producing for me the most beautiful of mediums strides and holding the outside rein like she’s holding my hand. Leg yielding with swung like she’s dancing. And I know what it feels like when it’s wrong, I promise you. So you know, I won’t rise to these discussions of what constitutes “classical” riding and “competative” riding. I know having learned as I have what is correct and when we affiliate this Autumn at Novice/Elementary with my heart in my mouth, provided Moo doesn’t go out chasing sailors, I know we’ll have a great time.
My point is as I said before-- that there are differing approaches that offer different tools and one has to be able to learn enough to choose what is right. And to be able to understand what the books discuss because sometimes it’s not all that easy to “get it”! And for me the scales of training are correct. But I wouldn’t ever close my mind to what’s out there or accept or reject something just because of who might be teaching it. Anke, in her masterclass video, said something in a lesson with a student’s greenish horse. She kept repeating:“Give rein”. And when I saw this many years ago and used it many years ago; boy did it help. So again-- one can learn from the most intersting sources.
And this is why I love and miss UDB and await its return. We simply do not have these kinds of circular and rabid arguments there.
Stop doing it then.
You don’t have arguments there because if anyone disagrees with the party line, they are banned.
Even here, very few are interested in participating in your ‘rabid arguments’. Don’t mistake that for agreement.
Have a look around. The Horse Care and Sporthorse breeding boards are probably the best you will see. It’s a bit… er… odd? to take up 15 pages on this board to whine about another board that you like so much better.
