Unknown neuro issue, horse cannot eat! - FINAL UPDATE :(

Several plants can affect horses this way. Yellow knapweed, and bracken fern etc. have you walked the pasture to check for weeds?

Knapweed is in the aster family and is blooming now. Facial muscle paralysis is the most common symptom, locomotive impairment follows.

Before the other horses were mentioned, liver problem was my suggestion. Weight loss, neuro, etc.

Wishing you good outcomes.

Icarus, I just did a quick search using your horse’s symptoms and learned a lot.
ALL the symptoms match up to RABIES. I also learned that vaccinated horses CAN still get rabies and if a known rabid animal has bitten them they are to be re-vaccinated immediately and observed for 45 days.

Rabies symptoms: difficulty swallowing, ataxic, hypersalivation, possible colicky, can have fever, paralysis of limbs. It may take up to 90 days for all symptoms to appear. The virus can be in the body for 2-9 weeks before signs develop.

Have any of the vets suspected Rabies?

I’d be very surprised that a horse with dysphagia due to rabies survived more than 48-72 hours after becoming symptomatic.

I’d be even more surprised if it turned out that the other horses showing signs were also rabid.

I’d be gobsmacked if rabies were not on the original list of differential diagnoses.

The additional 3 horses makes the likelihood of exposure to some toxin, be it plant or chemical a significant likelihood.

I hope you get an answer, OP

Selenium toxicity? Some of the same symptoms as rabies.

Ask about vitamin/mineral deficiencies or excesses. Selenium, Vitamin E, and B Vitamins can be involved in neuro symptoms. It’s not usually the first thing anyone thinks of. Discuss with the vet: the testing takes some time, so it may be worth in some cases pulling the sample and then supplementing right away with a nontoxic dose.

Here is a case study of something like that missed in a human: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/10/01/think-like-a-doctor-dazed-and-confused/
Often it’s not considered because the organism is getting a balanced diet in food, but sometimes there are unexpected reasons a particular nutrient isn’t getting absorbed correctly - poisoning can actually be one of them.

Good luck.

If it hasn’t been done, I would get a county ag extension agent out to look at the pastures, hay, etc to see if anything is there…

OP - Hoping you get answers - this sounds like a horrible situation. Jingles and keep us posted.

Maybe an actual vet can answer this question (cough Ghazzu)…

Would the symptoms, if caused by a mold/fungus/toxin in the grain/hay, go away when the horse is no longer eating them? Or would that require some kind of medication and treatment? I’m just curious, since the horse is now eating just grass, if the horse should be improving if the issues were in the hay/grain?

Also… have they tested for other tick-borne illnesses besides Lyme? There are other tick borne diseases that can cause similar symptoms to lyme.

I did a google search based on the symptoms and Botulism actually sounds pretty good…

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/generalized_conditions/clostridial_diseases/botulism.html

[QUOTE=Ruth0552;8354703]
Maybe an actual vet can answer this question (cough Ghazzu)…

Would the symptoms, if caused by a mold/fungus/toxin in the grain/hay, go away when the horse is no longer eating them? Or would that require some kind of medication and treatment? I’m just curious, since the horse is now eating just grass, if the horse should be improving if the issues were in the hay/grain?

Also… have they tested for other tick-borne illnesses besides Lyme? There are other tick borne diseases that can cause similar symptoms to lyme.

I did a google search based on the symptoms and Botulism actually sounds pretty good…

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/generalized_conditions/clostridial_diseases/botulism.html[/QUOTE]

Whether or not symptoms resolved, and how quickly would depend upon the particular toxin and its mode of action.

Botulinum toxin (and that was my first thought when I read this) binds to pre-synaptic sites and prevents the transmission of nerve impulses to muscle. If the animal survives, it does eventually recover. (IIRC, the motor neurons sprout axonal branches, but I doubt you’re interested in that…)

Leukoencephalomalacia, or moldy corn poisoning, results in destruction of brain cells. It is usually fatal, but also doesn’t present quite like the OP’s description.

Other toxins may affect liver function, which would show up on bloodwork, and, depending upon the toxin, the horse might well recover fully once the source of the toxin was removed.

Veterinary toxicology is a fascinating and frustrating thing. It’s a lot of painstaking detective work, and often the answers are elusive.

Here is a useful article on this subject that just popped up in my newsfeed.

http://www.horsejournals.com/acreages-stables/fencing-pasture/mycotoxins-equine-environment

so OP, update?

my first thought[s] were botulism and rabies. did you test for both types of botulism - is that a thing?

dysphagia as a symptom makes me think of toxicity - mold or plant. combine that with the other horses exhibiting similar symptoms - are they horses turned out our near your horse?

Not adding any ideas, just adding Jingles. Sounds very scary.

I have had a couple people ask for an update and, unfortunately, there hasn’t been too much to add.

We did treat him with the botulism antitoxin and saw no change. We also sent off water, hay, grass, bedding, and treat samples and they have so far come back negative for everything (I think there’s one or two pending tests but we tested for ā€œmost likelyā€ culprits first so I’m not holding my breath).

The other three horses at the barn still have decreased tongue tone, two have since moved to a new place and we’re waiting to reassess once they have settled in for a few weeks.

My horse seems to be getting steadily worse. He is quickly running out of grass due to the weather and blanketing can only help so much. I have offered him chopped hay, which he really enjoys to a certain extent. The problem is that offering it dry makes it difficult for him to swallow and offering it wet means he ignores it entirely (he has always had a ā€˜thing’ about eating wet food). He has a VORACIOUS appetite and a very alert/normal mentality, which is just heartbreaking. This would be a much easier decision if he ACTED sick and ready to cross the Rainbow Bridge. As it is, when I go to the field to walk him out in the longer (unfenced) grass outside the field, he eagerly walks up with his ears pricked :frowning:

My vet suggested Well Gel, but I don’t know if I can syringe feed it or if its too thick. He can’t eat it as a top dressing and is probably too picky to eat it free fed.

This is just so frustrating and I really did wish I had a good (or any real) update. Even if I knew what was wrong and it was bad, at least I would KNOW and be able to make the best decision for him. Instead I’m just on a ā€œmaybe we can wait it outā€ mentality and hope that whatever it is runs its course as long as he’s not in acute distress.

For those wondering, I do want to move him BUT since he have no idea why he is sick I am having problems finding a place for him. I don’t want to even consider infecting other horses with it (even though the vet and neurologist do not think it is contagious…but again, without knowing 100% what IT is, we can’t be 100% sure. Plus, he would need to be in a field with just good grass and no hay access, which is next to impossible unless I found someone’s backyard with no other ponies.

Life of a horse owner…

I’m sorry. What an awful situation for you and your horse.

OP, not sure where you are, but if the other boarders who moved their ponies see even an iota of improvement, I think you need to move your boy ASAP. You don’t need an ā€œidealā€ situation for him (and agreed a commercial boarding barn might not accept him without knowing the cause or his issue and if he’s contagious). But with your boy, can you find a neighbor or friend with a big empty fenced field or yard you could park him in for a few weeks? Someplace with completely different water, soil, and feed. He might be lonely, but I think moving him someplace where he’s in a different environment, and you can monitor him closely, makes sense. For a short time, it doesn’t even have to be set up for horses, just safe. Maybe a local fair or horse-show grounds would let you use stall space during the off season?

I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. It sounds absolutely heartbreaking.

OP saw your post on the Well-gel thread and replied. Go for it. See if you can syringe it, but it will be messy. I’d prefer to top-dress it on something your horse can eat. You can make it any consistency you want depending on the amount of water you put in it - maybe add some apple sauce instead to get it a pudding consistency.

Very sorry to hear about your horse and I’m with ElementFarm - if other boarders saw a lick of improvement get your horse out of there ASAP.

Jingles & AO & ((hugs)) …

[B]
Jingles & AO and ((hugs)) laced with extra strength and patience ~

If I had a backyard field of grass and no horses and ponies … I’d gladly welcome your gelding ~

[/B]

It could unfortunately be Yellow Starthistle poisoning. Your vet might not be familiar with it, depending on where you’re located. I’ve never seen a case so I don’t know how fast the symptoms develop but what you describe are the symptomsmy old vets warned about as we had a lot of it in dry years, the inability to swallow in particular. I understand there are related plants with similar effects.

They do need to eat a lot of it to get sick and it looks unpleasant to eat but some horses reportedly develop a taste. Or it can be bailed into hay. If you Google it you will find lots of info.

I hope its not as it’s untreatable, sadly.

(A few people asked and I don’t think I clarified earlier, but I live/board in Southeast Pennsylvania right at that corner where Pennsylvania/Maryland/Delaware meet)

So, probably a final update:

Wednesday night he choked again (this time on grass and a bit of chopped hay). My vet and I had already had a Quality of Life discussion and I was very adamant that if he couldn’t even eat grass (which is the easiest and most natural thing to pass) then we would be looking at euthanasia. So, sadly, I opted to help him pass over the Rainbow Bridge.

His preliminary necropsy results came back normal - no strictures, no ulcerations, no tumors. Everything else anatomically speaking was also normal. They will be sending out cultures, blood samples, and toxicology but I am getting the impression that they will not yield a lot of answers.

So, as of now, that is my final update. I will definitely let you guys know if some sort of answer (or even possible one) DOES come up.

RIP Ghostwriter. Run fast, thoroughbred… :cry:

I am so sorry.