The way Elisa Wallace pushed her horse beyond his limits to a point that could have been life-threatening for both of them was disgusting and disgraceful, and the Eventing forum called it that with only a certain degree of commentary on the scrappy rider etc. etc. etc.
This rider also behaved disgracefully on a public stage, and anger has no place in the barn aisle. I’d like to know who the steward was and what information was relayed to the steward. Whether or not she made contact with the horse is certainly a point of discussion in whether or not it qualified for horse abuse, and it sounds like Chris Wynne- whom I certainly trust as a horseman- wasn’t clear in his own mind on whether or not she did. It certainly qualifies as incorrect behavior, at best.
Agreed - I don’t think this should devolve into just a witch hunt for a rich, spoiled brat - no matter the upbringing, anyone who loses sight of putting the horse first and being grateful for working with these animals deserves derision!
This has me wondering how this judge felt when nothing was done. He clearly thought it was valid enough to say something and USEF did nothing. Did not support him. To me that in itself is wrong.
Who are the trainers that are passing around that kind of thinking that so many posters have used that phrase?
The horse was being a horse. Horses do not have the kind of brain cells that provide them with moral or ethical judgments. They just react based on combination of current conditions and past experience.
And that is what makes riding, riding. It is managing the horse that makes a rider into a rider.
I do not understand all the posts implying that some sort of blame goes to the horse for the rider being dumped. The horse is just a reactive animal. And it wasn’t the horse’s idea to be doing any of this.
If something like this had happened at a Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show, in front of thousands of people and live cameras, the entirety of the internet/world would have lost their absolute minds. Everyone would say, “Hey, that seemed a bit like an overreaction. Poor dog. Clearly its being mishandled, she shouldn’t be allowed to show dogs or own dogs if she treats them this way”. And the world would agree and she would be shamed on all media outlets, and banned from participating in that dog show again.
For me, I don’t see the difference between running at a dog or running at a horse with your leg contorted in an attempt to dropkick them. Something happened that she didn’t like, and then her true colors came out for the world to see. As it has been said, we can only imagine what happens at home when no one is watching (not that she cares…obviously).
If you cannot handle the pressure of the performance, then stop doing it. If you can’t remember a time when horses/showing made you happy, take a step back and re-evaluate.
Just my 2 cents added to the accumulated $450 in this thread already :rolleyes:
The show steward failed to do his/her duty.
This rider chose to humiliate herself in a very public venue. COTH reported on it just as a news organization should.
To me that video in the OP is just another example of a rider and a horse with holes in their training.
The rider was not “centered” “Balanced” at the landing. The horse responded by dropping it’s head and slowing. To me the horse looked confused.
I did not like the riders way of attempting to punish the horse, and to my eyes the horse looked like it was expecting to be punished.
IMO… A properly trained rider would not have come off that horse.
I would not call what the horse did a “dirty stop” If the horse had dropped it’s shoulder and ran out to the side then I’d think the horse was trying to unseat the rider.
IMO… this is a case of a rider needing to develop a broader set of riding abilities, understand the equine mind better, and learn to train a horse using classical methods.
That is why I wonder what specifically was said to the steward.
The judge said “The rider fell off the horse, lost her temper, and tried to kick the horse in the stomach.” The judge couldn’t tell if she’d made contact or not, and to me, operating on another person’s report, that would be important information. Did the rider intentionally physically harm the horse? Does intimidating a horse fall under the letter of “abuse”? Was the steward told that the rider had immediately run at the horse with clear intent to make it physically yield way to her?
I am not a USEF licensed official. I have served as a steward for local shows when I was a member of the board. Under our rules, if the official who witnessed the incident was unable to tell me conclusively that the rider had made contact, and depending on how the running was described, I would have absolutely been able to apply a yellow card but I may not have been able to call it “abuse of the horse.”
I’m not defending any part of what the rider did, which is inexcusable from this side of the camera. In asking about “abuse” and “yellow cards” we might be asking about a degree of sanction that the steward might not have felt able to apply if the official who witnessed the event could not confirm if the horse had been harmed. That makes my next question “what other sanctions are available?” I believe that in FEI rules you can yellow-card a rider for “incorrect behavior” but I wonder what constitutes “incorrect” in this case, if it’s applicable, and if it’s the right penalty here. This was unhorsemanlike, unsportsmanlike, and unbecoming of any purported lover of the horse.
I did try to look up the wording of the rule but am getting a 522 error when trying to load the rulebook, so I’ll be satisfying my curiosity on that another day.
Woah, there! I was talking about the general you, not accusing you (who I don’t know anything about) specifically. My comment and stream of thought was about those that I know are being hypocritical. I was making a general observation about the effects social media has on people’s ability to be duplicitous and how annoying I find it when I know for sure that someone is being that way. Just trying to having a conversation. Not trying to imply anything about some random person I don’t know on the internet.
Keep in mind, USEF did not appoint the steward to this event. The steward was hired by the Hampton Classic, which has a vested interest in not ejecting exhibitors. This is a classic example of the conflict of interest that arises when shows hire stewards. THIS should be the focus of our concern. COTH relays that the steward “informed” USEF, but could not confirm if this was done through the proper written channels. Right now it’s still very much up in the air whether the USEF, or the Hampton Classic horse show, dropped the ball here.
And the horse jumped the fence, so no one is calling it a dirty stopper either.
But that move, rooting immediately on landing, when all of physics is working against you, is a dirty move. Dirty move, not dirty horse.
Do I think the horse is plotting and sinister? Hell no. But nearly all of them come with tricks and on the trick scale this is a real sneaky one. One that can easily become learned behavior, render him a real safety threat, and leave him in a very bad way.
So no, I don’t “blame” the horse. But anyone that just writes this off as typical equine shenanigans is not doing this beast any favors.
Not that any of that matters, because her response was still out of line.
There is totally such thing as a horse that has a “dirty” side. There are horses that do learn how to unseat a rider and are dishonest about work. That move that horse did was not because he was offended the rider’s shoulders weren’t back (a quote I find funny considering this is the H/J forum, but I digress) - that was a “get off, now” move. Same as there are dishonest people, there are dishonest animals. The directives and motives are not the same, obviously… and of course, one needs to take into account the handling, the management, the training, the possibility of physical issues, etc before assigning a horse as irredeemably dirty/dishonest. But some horses, without provenance or physical issues, just don’t want to go all chips in.
I will say in my experience horses that have a “dirty stop” usually develop that behavior from an underlying physical issue, but it’s not to say the horse at that level does not understand his job is to go over a fence and go forward… and then there are truly some horses that are just bad actors even in the best of management. We have a retired lesson horse in our front yard, and I love him to pieces, but he is the definition of a sneaky and dirty horse – and it’s not physical – he’s just very smart and constantly tests his handler and has learned that green riders (like my SO) lack the toolset to enforce certain expected ground-manners/behaviors. Under saddle it is more of the same - the riders who know what they’re doing do very well with him, and the riders that don’t, well, he’s learned he can stop and munch on grass for a bit while his riders feebly kick on, or pull the reins out of the rider’s hands and go to the middle of the ring to be “done”, etc… And horses are not stupid - they learn easily in a show environment that sometimes they can get away with things they can’t at home. If they can learn that XC almost always follows dressage, they surely can learn that unseating a rider means less work on their behalf…
I found the rider’s reaction absolutely disgusting, I really did. It was an appalling display of a deeply entrenched problem in our sport, which is a lack of horsemanship and stewardship for the horse.
so in one sentence you are saying it was towards those who you know are being hypocritical then in another you say you are just trying to have a conversation on the internet with anonymous people. Thats a bold assumption that you do not know on the internet are hypocrites. If you are directing your comment based on real life people you know, perhaps you should direct it at them and not here.
I can assure you, that I certainly do not behave this way or remotely close to this with my horses.
So, what exactly was the Chronicle hoping to provoke???
I think it was 100% predictable that posting that video was going to make that rider the center of all kinds of internet attacks including personal insults and threats, including some inappropriate language.
Sometimes these kind of internet dramas even result in far more serious real life threats, harassment and attacks. The real life repercussions of an internet shaming are usually far out of proportion to the seriousness of the offense.
Personally, I don’t know what the heck the Chronicle editors were thinking to allow such an irresponsible post. The rider did behave very embarrassingly at a very public venue. There’s no evidence that the horse was harmed or that the rider’s foot even made contact with him. Even if she had made contact, her display of poor sportsmanship was in little danger of causing any actual harm to the horse. This is not newsworthy material. The Chronicle is simply attention-getting at a very low level at someone else’s expense.
Worst of all, this “event” for which we have so thoroughly shamed this rider, is a total non-event compared to the VERY REAL horse welfare issues we deal with in horse sports. What this rider did in NO WAY compares to a pony mom killing a healthy young pony with an injection of an unknown substance. It doesn’t compare to a hunter being subjected to a long list of “legal” and untestable substances plus an inordinate amount of longeing and then perhaps a quick sub-testable injection of GABA on the way to the ring in the name of “prep.” It doesn’t compare to a dressage trainer roughly attempting rollkur in hand and causing the horse to rear over backwards and nearly die from head trauma. It doesn’t compare to injecting horse’s legs with cobra venom to suppress pain so the horse can race or compete.
I think it is good for all of us to be aware that someone could be videoing us at any moment. However, I think that this culture of posting videos and internet-shaming people is VERY unlikely to result in any improvement in horse welfare. I’m sure that the ONLY thing that benefitted from this post was the Chronicle’s internet traffic and perhaps the egos of a few “holier than thou” types.
Meh. She had a choice and chose the behavior she did. This was the show ring at the Hampton Classic. There was no reasonable “presumption of privacy”. I don’t see how you can argue that the larger fault lies with the media that simply reports what happened. Don’t like the video? Don’t perform what’s in it!
Within that “general you” are some specific people who don’t deserve this.
You are doing exactly what you accuse others of doing in the pile-up. You are doing a “drive-by accusation” under the cover of anonymity. And you explain why yourself: You don’t want to be held accountable for what you say on this topic on the internet. But it’s a large enough problem when others do that, that you rig up an alter to say so?
And you explain that you “don’t have the energy” to deal with the blow-back from your comment. You confess that you wish you were stronger (read: had the integrity to stand behind your words), but, you hope, the “mea culpa” will make your readers more sympathetic to the plight of the person who wants to say something that they aren’t adult enough to stand behind. Well, look. I write only what I’m willing to have attributed to me; if I can to it, anyone can do it.
So how about this: If you can’t sign your name to what you post here, if you are going to write something that you don’t want associated with you later, Don’t Post It!
The sport does not get better if people don’t act like adults and make word and deed match.
The Hampton Classic asked an exhibitor leave the show in 2015, and that exhibitor was eventually suspended for 6 months. Do not think The Hampton Classic management is afraid of what you are calling a conflict of interest. They are a professional staff.
I completely agree with everything you said. I did appreciate Elisa’s public statement after the fact, in which she agreed with everything you said as well. She owned up to her mistake, and I think that coupled with the fact that in other rides she shows a respect for a deep relationship with her horses allows me to see her as a great rider who made a (really) bad decision.
Jazz does not seem to have the same respect for her horses. I watched many videos of her riding, and none of her horses look happy to be working with her. There is so much frantic head thrashing, gaping mouths, and wild eyes, it is sad. Technically she is a billion times better than me, but you can’t teach someone how to care about a horse.
