update # 32 ```IMHO ~ SmartPak is slipping ... not in a good way ! PSA

[SLW]

[QUOTE=saje;7813650]
OP said she got them on sale, and I’m guessing the expiration date is the reason they were on sale.

The stuff doesn’t turn into Kryptonite the minute the expiration date passes, the date means that at that time the drug is still stable and effective.

Expiration dates explained:[/QUOTE]

Valley Vet has specials on Gastrogard through out the year and they are not short dated or outdated. I’m not sure why ZuZu is buying Ulcergard when GG is the same thing just labeled differently as a preventative verses the healing dose on Ulcergard.

I have no idea if it is legal to sell an outdated prescription product even if you disclose “THIS PRODUCT HAS OUTDATED”. In ZuZu’s example it reads like the person in charge of Smartpaks inventory is not doing their job keeping fresh products on the shelf and returning to the manufacturer the outdated products. At the vet clinic where I worked if we had bute/banamine/vaccines that had not been opened we could return them for credit on the account.

[merrygoround]

Smart Pak was initially an excellent idea. Packaging supplements in individual packets made life easier for traveling competitors, and barn managers, and for many was well worth the extra $.
But then they started coming up with potions to suit the owner’s notions and the glib prose that went with these interesting compounds was remarkable, and worthy of the efforts of the old time snake oil salesman.

ON the retail side, yes, they do have some products that I could’t find any where else, but I also did notice, that for many of the basics, they were more expensive even with free shipping than other sources with shipping charges.

[msj]

When I had a horse on a mist of Phenylephrine/distilled water sprayed up my horses nose for allergies, the vet clinic gave me the expired phenylephrine as they knew the purpose I used it. Also, I wasn’t even a regular client of that practice at the time. Considering the cost was $15 for the 1 oz bottle, I was more than grateful.

[Zu_Zu]

Thanks for your replies ` offering some detail to clarify

offering some detail to clarify

I stated this is MY opinion

that Smartpak is slipping …

I stated I was disappointed and actually disgusted

** I am not ‘outraged’ nor did I label the company as 'disgusting" Sharon A !

I offered two of a half a dozen examples of less than acceptable orders sent

I too, had a vet dosage inaccuracy
and

please know this was not the first first discussion about expiration date on product !

I order Prascend and keep stocked on Banamine and Bute
my ordering as increased

as this summer I had a mare struggle ( seen by two vets ) with a elevated liver enzyme and ulcers
consequently I have ordered more frequently …

after Gastroguard prescription ran out I went to Ulcergard

This package was labeled a value package as not one but a package of six … so I expected it to carry a expiration date that was months out … as they have promised verbally !

I called and asked if they wanted me to send it back… they
stated … while not under prescription it was considered nonreturnable

I was simply asking if they needed the product back to determine “what went wrong with shippping out expired product” = expired SIX months ago !

They could not advise on the saftey of the product and indicated they would have to check and get back to me

I choose to NOT USE an expired product on a mare who has had a tough summer !

I thank you all for your help

I stated clearly that this was my opinion that I had noticed ( only gave two of the many) examples and was throwing it out there to see if others had experienced the same poor service from Smartpak .

This has been a surprise as in the past Smartpak was my 'go-to"

I value your thoughts / reviews on Valley Vet and will try them for my next orders.

btw I’m not buying tack and breeches … I use Smartpak for meds, salt licks, and some odds and ends like Ariat paddock boots once a year. but I do consider that I spend a good amount of money with their company …

[B]It’s a glorious Fall day here :D…off to ride !

Thanks again for your help ![/B]

[twotrudoc]

I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t mind paying more for good service. It is why I buy things at Nordstrom, SmartPak, and Fred Meyer as opposed to Sears, State Line, and Walmart.

I would be bugged by that as well, ZuZu. Not so much the mistake (meh, things happen!) but by the lack of ownership and the lack of resolving to fix the issue/mistake/problem.

[soloudinhere]

PS, that item that I got a tracking number for on FRIDAY?

tracking number is still not live in the system.

So that’s a week after I ordered an in-stock item. Companies that generate tracking numbers days before they actually pack and ship an item are slimy, IMO. They do it to get around the rules that say you can’t charge until you ship, so they get paid for something and then take their sweet time delivering it.

Yeah, no thanks. I’ll go to dover for items I want a guarantee on (since theirs is ACTUALLY no hassle, and not a weird-prorated-store credit-third-degree guarantee) and just random other stores for other items.

[trubandloki]

@SLW;7812626

Damn, they sold an outdated product and won’t take it back on a return?? Something is big wrong there. Did I read it correctly that they are sending you 6 new tubes of Ulcergard at no charge? If so, that corrects their error.

They are replacing it. Do they need to ship it back too or does it some how make them more evil that they are saying “keep it, we will send you new”?
I am confused about the disdain about them not taking it back when it is clearly being replaced.

@msj;7813712

When I had a horse on a mist of Phenylephrine/distilled water sprayed up my horses nose for allergies, the vet clinic gave me the expired phenylephrine as they knew the purpose I used it. Also, I wasn’t even a regular client of that practice at the time. Considering the cost was $15 for the 1 oz bottle, I was more than grateful.

I got a huge discount when I said ok to them using a very slightly (like a few days) outdated package of suture on a small wound. I was very thankful for the offer of savings.

[SuckerForHorses]

I’d keep the expired UlcerGard and use it…basically, you got it for free.

I’ve used a tube of 6 mos. expired UlcerGard before with no ill effects. That sh*t’s too expensive to toss away 6 free tubes! :lol:

[Zu_Zu]

btw ~ I use med products only within their expiration dates …SO WHAT !

That is not something I practice * the use of expired meds.

I have a mare who has struggled this summer , she is on the mend

I will not ‘treat’ her with ( Expired for 6 months 05/2014 meds.)

SO WHAT !

I want my mare around for years to come … not taking any chances !

Yes, I expect a company to check the expiration dates on the non-refundable medical products before they take my $ and ship the product

SO WHAT ~!

Yes, they are replacing … thank goodness I have product until the replacement shipment arrives …
btw dealing with an ulcer victim is not easy … and one does not want an interruption in med administration.

SuckerFH ``` I tht you might understand the importance of being careful when one owns an older ulcer victim ?!~!?

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;7814712]
I’d keep the expired UlcerGard and use it…basically, you got it for free.

I’ve used a tube of 6 mos. expired UlcerGard before with no ill effects. That sh*t’s too expensive to toss away 6 free tubes! :lol:[/QUOTE]

[Zu_Zu]

Once again ```` to makes this clear ?!~!?

My thread was developed to investigate if others had noticed within the last 6 months or so

• if the Smartpak company had not been as efficent as in the past

I gave two of my recent order fiascos … there are MORE ! :eek:

But I stayed with the company because of their past performance …

SO while no one was injured or harmed during this :lol:

YES ! I do expect the company to check the expiration date on the 6 boxes of Ulcergard before they ship it out to me.

I am waiting for replacement …

I will not use an expired product on this mare who has a tough summer but who is looking SO much better

*** I thank you for replies and hope that others will take notice that

there is in this thread documentation of SmartPaks recent slips in several areas .

I appreciate the reviews of Valley Vet

I have moved on …

Valley Vet has my meds business

Dover has my Ariat boot business

R.E. Fennells has and always will have my tack business

Again thank you posters …

Here’s to a great Fall day wherever you love horses !

[findeight]

Is it legal to sell drugs or consumables after the expiration dates? Understand they may be useable but can a retail outlet sell them??? Pretty sure it is for things destined for humans.

Just got back from the grocery store and they were stripping all items due to expire this week, some to the special sale bin until expiration day, some to the local food bank for immediate consumption, the rest in the dumpster- it might still be good but they can’t sell anything past posted expiration date. That included OTC Meds and vitamins and pet food.

Guess its OK if it’s “just” for animals and mail order.

I never used SP for anything except their original supplement paks which were and are…smart…for many owners. No trouble canceling when I retired the horse. But their mass mailings have become increasingly annoying, and heavy, plus I find disguising a sales pitch as an informational, educational magazine disgusting and there does not seem to be any way off the mailing list. I tried, twice.

[Zu_Zu]

I have spoken to the Merial company ~ they say NO! not if expired !

So now I have spoken to the Merial company and they state

" NO! :eek: We don’t not recommend using any of our products past the expiration date" !!

They asked where I purchased the Ulcerguard

[B]I said "SmartPak " !

There you go canter !

FWIW [/B]

[trubandloki]

As was said in the other thread you started about (holy drama llama), of course the company told you that. Did you really expect them to say otherwise?

Smartpak is sending you new not expired meds so all will be well in your world.

Call your local rescue and ask them if they want the expired meds. They will probably gladly take them off your hands.

[Zu_Zu]

I follow the company’s advice when treating my horse ~

I choose to ask and follow the company’s policy when treating my horse …

because Smartpak chose to send expired medical product !~!

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7815060]
As was said in the other thread you started about (holy drama llama), of course the company told you that. Did you really expect them to say otherwise?[/QUOTE]

[saje]

Hell, I’ll take the stuff if you don’t want it. I’ll even pay the shipping.

[SuckerForHorses]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7815060]
As was said in the other thread you started about (holy drama llama), of course the company told you that. Did you really expect them to say otherwise?

Smartpak is sending you new not expired meds so all will be well in your world.

Call your local rescue and ask them if they want the expired meds. They will probably gladly take them off your hands.[/QUOTE]

:yes:

OP: So what? Nothing. I’m not forcing you over the internet to use these expired meds on your horse. I was simply voicing what I would do if I were in your shoes. No need to get all “SO WHAT??” on me. Don’t use them, makes no difference to me.

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=saje;7815116]
Hell, I’ll take the stuff if you don’t want it. I’ll even pay the shipping.[/QUOTE]

Me too! :lol:

I don’t see what the big deal is. Of course the company won’t tell you to use expired product. That’s what the expiration date is for. They are covering their hiney. If a product is stable at room temperature for years after manufacturer I would have no qualms using stuff that is 5 months past date.

[yaya]

We have several Salvage Stores in our area that make a booming business selling out of date food.

Out of date medication is a whole other issue, especially if they don’t inform you first.

[downen]

In my opinion, many businesses today lure people in with business models that are unsustainable. Smartpak started out as a good concept of pre-packaging supplements and backing it up with great customer service. But as their customer base built, they started to expand into trying to offer a wide assortment of horse-related items, while trying to ensure customer loyalty with the free-shipping/free returns policy. It looks to me that the business model was not sustainable, the profits were not there, and they have started cutting corners to try to make up for it. I’ve seen this scenario play over and over in today’s cutthroat business environment. VistaPrint is a prime example of this, seemingly offering a bargain product, only to add in fees and deliver low-quality product.

[french_fry]

[QUOTE=soloudinhere;7814665]
PS, that item that I got a tracking number for on FRIDAY?

tracking number is still not live in the system.

So that’s a week after I ordered an in-stock item. Companies that generate tracking numbers days before they actually pack and ship an item are slimy, IMO. They do it to get around the rules that say you can’t charge until you ship, so they get paid for something and then take their sweet time delivering it.

Yeah, no thanks. I’ll go to dover for items I want a guarantee on (since theirs is ACTUALLY no hassle, and not a weird-prorated-store credit-third-degree guarantee) and just random other stores for other items.[/QUOTE]

Skipping over all the drama llama expired meds stuff, I wanted to respond to this shipping thing.

Has this happened to you before? I only ask because the item is usually delivered the day that my tracking number goes live. So there’s no way that they are generating the tracking number days before my items ship. I think this is a hold up with UPS or whatever carrier they use - I’ve noticed it when shipping other items as well.

Hoping it’s the same for you and that your item arrives today or tomorrow!