ooh I’d love to see that video! Thankfully my guy is not huge at all, so I’m hoping we can get more imaging done standing at the clinic.
Nothing significant from the radiology report, c6 c7 normal, everything looks fine. I still suspect the rib. As a last ditch effort we will try to block to right front next week and see what we have. Then its off to the clinic for more imaging of the rib area. I just want this to be over 
What did the bone scan and ultrasound show? Radiologist says neck images are normal, so I’ll be shipping him to the clinic for more diagnostics. I’m wondering if I should just go straight to CT or if an ultrasound/bone scan is worth trying before that.
I would go straight to CT scan. It’s really the best way to show skeletal issues. If it doesn’t show anything, you can do the bone scan.
yep, that’s what I’m thinking at this point. Go big or go home lol
Radiographs were unremarkable, but bone scan showed uptake in his neck. Ultrasound showed osteoarthritis at C6-C7 and myelogram showed more arthritis at C4-C5, spinal cord compression, and stenosis.
This sounds a lot like one of my horses, but mine has malformed C6-C7. Injecting it didn’t help. We did a bone scan and the neck, RF hoof, and SI lit up. RF had a bone bruise. SI was eventually injected and helped some but not enough. My horse is not neurologic either. I hate the idea of Osphos, but it’s the only thing that seems to help.
I did the hair test on him and it suggested MFM and RER. Changing his diet, adding MFM pellets and NanoQ10 has helped with some of his issues.
He still seems anxious under saddle at times. He can’t hold a nice frame to the fences — he drops his back and hollows. He can be violently objectionable to the leg. It takes him a while to warm up — he always starts out short on his RH. He hates being brushed and blanketed. He also prefers to be turned out with other horses. He’s mouthy and unpleasant to handle on the ground. He has to be sedated for the farrier.
Osphos, MFM diet, and a consistent program seem to work best for him.
I haven’t seen much improvement when I use a BOT for him.
The horse continues to get worse. Cannot be touched anywhere now without aggressive biting. Refuses to lunge. Insanely mouthy (like chewed through a lunge line and crossties already). It’s so obvious the mouthiness is due to discomfort and chewing is a self soothing technique. He is back to wood chewing in turnout. My barn manager says he is just “not normal”. Anxious, irritable. I have done nothing but hang out with him the past week. When I tried to do some groundwork with him he completely refuses to lunge, otherwise I literally cannot keep the lunge/lead line out of his mouth.
He is exactly like last winter, but worse.
We stopped the gaba and robaxin as they made no difference/made him worse, tapering down on the dex to get off it. I just heard from the vet that he tests positive for EPM with the Pathogenes test, and was prescribed Orogin and Neuroquel. I have no experience with EPM but in this area, every horse would test positive with blood. Not convinced we found the issue but we will treat.
Picked someone else’s brain about this yesterday and she threw out the idea of foot pain acting up in the winter. I feel like his front feet look awful. Super underrun heels. When I asked my vet about pads for the fronts (like he has on the hinds) a month ago, she said not necessary and to be more patient. On x ray in October, the hinds were a lot worse NPA than the fronts.
We’ll see if he blocks to the RF foot on Wednesday. From there I am hoping to get a second/third/fourth opinion on his case. My thoughts are look more at the feet, further investigation of the neck (ultrasound?), further imaging of the first rib, more robust neuro exam, MIM (lower on the list since he’s so asymmetrical?) Vitamin e (normal levels in sept, on 2000iu/day now). Will probably scope, but even if ulcers are found I don’t think that is our issue. He was exactly like this last winter and scoped clean.
Farther down the list unfortunately is EDM but I might be catastrophizing. Is it possible grass pasture in the warmer months is neuroprotective and without it the symptoms return?
Edit: new symptoms today. Extremely spooky, flighty, explosive just trying to hand walk. Constantly staring off into the distance on high alert. Won’t focus on me or even look at me. Dangerous aggression from both ends with blanketing and being touched. Not grumpy like usual, no ear pinning even when trying to attack me. Determined unsafe to handle. Leaving him alone until Wednesday when vet comes. This is not my horse, and I am heartbroken and scared.
I’m worried about spending all this money and time trying to get him right, and still not quite getting there. Please don’t take offense to this at all- but if my horse was as you described here I would rather him be retired. It wouldn’t be enjoyable for me 
It’s probably too much to ask but I just want a happy horse to ride! 
Thanks for your input on his issues. I should probably check for RER type of things to at least rule out, and see what diet changes maybe could help. Could you only find the bone bruise with MRI?
@clburnham11 Was any type of testing for muscle myopathies checked ? A lot of what you describe could be PSSM and or MFM …if not I would recommend getting that looked into …my mare got diagnosed with that by a muscle biopsy done at New Bolton Center …Dr Kara Brown and Amy Johnson are excellent to work with…I would also have them check the neck …a mylogram will show if there is compression on the spinal cord …if it does a more an arthritis issue in the neck that can definitely flare up in the cold as well as of your horse has had any time off …issues with the feet can also affect the neck and back as well.
@ladipus not yet! It’s been on my mind for a while, my vets haven’t seemed interested in it. The only thing turning me off from that is it’s so asymmetrical right to left, and so focused on the front end. I was under the impression mim was more whole body and symmetrical.
Thanks so much for the input, it’s for sure worth looking into. I agree a myelogram may be in our future as well. Maybe we’ll end up at new Bolton, thanks for sharing those names you had good luck with!
Hi there,
I looked back quickly thru your posts and see that at one time you treated for ulcers. Any possibility “they” may be back?
100% possible. I am totally open to scoping and treating. However i am not sure that explains everything as he was like this last winter and scoped clear. For sure ulcers could explain most of these symptoms and its worth finding out
That’s almost the exact diagnosis as my horse, except mine also has ECVM. We did hock, stifle and SI shots, plus osphos and 10,000 IU vitamin E daily. After being told to retire him in Nov 2023, he’s now back in full work and solidly 2nd level. He hasn’t had any further neurological episodes.
So many suggestions, and good ones but I just wanted to say how thoughtful you are trying to figure it out. You are really trying to help your horse be the best he can be and you have spent a ton of $ I am sure. I can tell you I have a KWPN mare who seemed to fall apart this year. She has mental struggles with SJ as she had been ridden with electric spurs in the early part of her life by the Kochers. That abuse stuff just doesn’t go away. We had a vet recommended to us who thought out of the box. The horse presented somewhat neuro on exam. We did injections of Alpha2EQ, and put her on the KER MFM pellets, NANO-O and, concentrated E. She is showing significant improvement in her work. It took at least two months for all of this stuff to work symbiotically. She’s a lovely horse who has been through a lot in her young life, and I am on a mission to help her feel as best she can. Good luck. It’s definitely a rabbit hole.
I don’t know your location but there are some true foot gurus out there. The one I am using does a three state radius by vet and farrier referral only. Glue on only. The job is so clean it’s unreal and in 12 weeks my horse went from NPA all around to good angles and in another 6 weeks perfect angles. There are far more mediocre farriers than great but if as an owner you think the feet look like crap and in October you knew they were NPA I think feet are a fair concern.
Unfortunately it does sound like you’ve got some co occurring things here but fixing the feet and scoping for ulcers seem like very realistic quality of life steps if finances permit.
@shamrocker58
I truly appreciate the kind words. It sure is a rabbit hole and honestly consuming my entire life. I think out of the box ideas and second/third etc opinions can be so valuable. I think that is in my future. I’m so glad you found a combination of things that work for your mare
I am close to Saratoga rood and riddle, so I might try to get a podiatry assessment done. I agree there are probably multiple things going on. Have to start somewhere
I think your idea of hoof pain is a reasonable one. I have a horse who has been struggling with negative angles all around and “navicular” in his fronts since I got him off the track about a year and a half ago.
In his case he has very minimal radiographic changes to the actual navicular bone but general heel pain as a result of chronically underrun heels and poor shoeing for many years (he raced until he was 6).
His right is significantly worse than his left and he is incredibly tight around his right shoulder blade. This makes it very hard for him to bend to the right and supple on his right side. When I first got him I thought it was a bodywork issue and he was just tighter on the right (he also looks like he broke his pelvis at some point in his life so there is already some asymmetry present), but as we’ve rehabbed his feet, its become clear that his right front bothers him quite a lot and I think the hoof pain is the source of the compensation that leads to the tight shoulder blade/neck and difficulty moving to the right.
In terms of similarities to your guy, in addition to the difficulty in one direction only, I’ve also found he’s MUCH grumpier, mouthier and prone to be a little explosive in the cold, and at his baseline, he’s a super easy going, happy gelding so the change is very notable. I think the very frozen, hard ground is tough on their already ouchy feet and I’m sure the general muscle tightness doesn’t help when they are already tense and compensating. Mine does not show nearly as severe symptoms as yours but similar enough that it might be helpful. Throwing pads on the fronts is an easy step and getting his angles fixed is a good idea regardless of whether its the true source of all his issues.
I also have an EPM horse (lucky me!) and the new symptoms you mention (spookiness and hyper-alertness) track with EPM but none of the rest do in my limited experience.
So sorry you’re going through this. I know it’s heartbreaking.
My epm horse was never neurological. Mostly crabby to saddle and absolutely hated grooming. Was worse on the left side which prompted us to look for a physical cause instead of behavioral. She had similar hypersensitivity to light touch with her Lyme and Anaplasmosis. Oh also ulcers. There is some thought that epm can cause ulcers. Although the stress from chronic pain would probably also cause ulcers.
Ulcers can be the first sign of EPM. Before my gelding was diagnosed, we treated him for ulcers and saw an improvement. From the Sunny Coast Equine vet:
One of the first signs of EPM is gastric ulcers, and many patients that we see with EPM present with recurrent gastric ulceration or gastric ulcers that will not heal despite several rounds of treatment. This is because the disease causes multiple receptor sites for IL-6 (an important inflammatory modulator) to open up on the stomach and duodenum, causing excess stomach acid. The gastrointestinal tract is the main source of the body’s immune protection, so keeping it functioning optimally is essential. Gastric ulceration also causes pain, which perpetuates the cycle with EPM. We use a combination of gastric and hind gut acid reducing Western medicines, acupuncture, and probiotics to heal gastric ulcers and improve gut health.
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