UPDATE: help with sales dressage horse scam...

We all have our own buying philosophies…here is what I would say about your story.

I guarantee that the horse you were looking at did not come up lame overnight. There was a history there that you were not told about.

You didn’t give details, but if this was an upper level horse, at that age and level of training, that horse probably had shown some signs of prior infirmities or weaknesses during training that were not disclosed to you.

This is why it is so important to VET THE SELLER. They live with the horse, know its mental and physical quirks and limitations.

There is no perfect horse, but getting young horses, you are not dealing with other people’s training. And horses that are in a “training for resale” program are sometimes pushed beyond the horse’s capabilities which can lead to mental and/or physical breakdown. I don’t want to deal with that, so I buy young.

I like training horses. I like to work with young horses. I have had European trainers say, “Have I got a horse for you.” In one case it as a GP stallion that had a price “only for me.” I passed…never went further than the conversation and a video of the horse.

I like to start with the blank chalkboard that is a young horse. Some are more athletic and/or more intelligent than others…but in all cases, they provide me with lessons in horsemanship that advance my equestrian tact.

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Yeah, this is the kind of scam that gets pulled with all kinds of high ticket items, not specifically horse, except the vet check part.

Scammers like this are dishonest obviously, but they also prey on the greedy dishonest part of the victim who thinks they are getting a great deal due to circumstances or even doing something illegal. Not that this is illegal, but I’m thinking of all the people who actually did fall for the Nigerian Princess Money Transfer spam scam. Obviously the money laundering/ flight capital fantasy in that scam was illegal or at least highly unethical. Clueless regular folks fell for it, just like they fall for ponzi schemes.

Once the scammer unlocks the inner greedy self of the victim, which might indeed be buried quite deeply, they can play that beautifully because the two are on the same wave length.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/05/15/the-perfect-mark

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I think we should be cautious about judging the character of the victim in these situations. Maybe the buyer thought they were getting a deal on the horse and threw common sense out the window in their excitement but that doesn’t imply a lack of ethics. I’m sure they feel terrible enough without the suggestion that they are as dishonest and greedy as people who scammed them. Yikes. Salt meet wound.

I’m guessing OPs friend has learned a very expensive and valuable lesson. I just hope it doesn’t stop them from pursuing horse ownership. To the rest of us, it’s a good reminder to stay aware. Although this scam had some very big red flags, you can bet scammers are always looking to improve their angle.

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I second the idea to vet the seller 😀

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I love your Post!! all my horses have issues which would make selling difficult… All of them are totally sound and doing well in shows!! a finding during a PPE is something caught in a moment you have no idea what consequences it will have… There are so many things which can cause problems… If the horse is sound and passes flexions I don’t care at all. And I don’t buy horses I breed them and I know exactly how hard it is to raise them without any blemishes… So far non of my horses broke down on me, it’s all about management…and I am not talking about medication

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I didn’t mean that the buyer was any more dishonest than anyone else. It’s just that scammers are able to unearth and reach that part of people, sometimes people that are in fact very upright and have never been pulled into anything like this before, but for whatever reason are vulnerable at this point in time. I find the whole general topic very very interesting, The scammers seem to create an atmosphere of urgency and secrecy, and the victims lose the space and time they need to reflect or get proper advice. I think we all get excited about good deals, and if we saw someone offloading a high end bridle at a garage sale for $5, we’d certainly buy it. Somehow scammers play on this and sometimes make the victim feel like they are outsmarting the scammers.

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The scam continues and the horse has been listed again…didn’t even change details.

https://www.horseclicks.com/dressage-schoolmaster-gelding/horses/1182043

Same photos are used in a different horse ad as well.

http://equimarket.equestrianconnection.com/showads.asp?adnumber=134801&print=true

COTH won’t let me post the links but the horse is relisted. Check horseclicks and enter Danbury Connecticut and dressage horse. Listed for 26,5.

Horse listed also under Reaktor as a name in equimarket.equestrianconnection DOT COM. Only 19,5 on that site.

Oh I would expect they will keep that listing until its played out and then try another. They would be doing all the this remotely from another continent.

Yes. There are a few more. :frowning:

"A true legend with a super pedigree and a true reflection of the pedigree. A horse with nice walks, he is a self-evident gelding with high standards of work and riding ability. He has nice walks with a great book freedom and is very easy for collection and makes nice pirouettes.

He is now 9 years old. A guy who really likes to show up. He is a fun racing horse. Gives very nice riding pleasure. Nice to ride out alone and also with other horses, good to shoe and load. Good foundation for dressage and might also jump if consistent lessons are provided. Shows great talent for collection and makes movements from LA/M* such as open and reverse gallop.

Nice and easy in both riding and handling. Can get along with just about any rider who mounts him, irrespective of their experience. He is a nice schoolteacher horse who takes a beginner up to the green divisions yet fancy enough for professionals. Very soft and loyal heart. A horse to have fun with you!

We bought him from the previous owner when he was barely 3 years old and he has been with us for 6+ years now. We sell him because rider is not fit to ride anymore due to car accident. So, it is with a heavy heart that we sell him. Home is placed before price to us.

If this sounds like a horse for you, call me, I’ll tell you more!"

Nice horse in the pictures. I wonder who he is.

That horse as originally listed as Latvian warmblood.

hxxps://www.deine-tierwelt.de/kleinanzeigen/lette-c90776/

Change the “xx” to tt in the url to view

The horse is Four Legends. I have talked to the trainer and this scam went through Europe about 8 months ago. The trainer was on television discussing it. Many people have lost large amounts of money.

There are other scams like this one, and they steal photos from people’s FB and other pages.

An easy check is to ask Google to image search. If the horse is on an unrelated website or if the horse appears on multiple ads with different names, is clearly scam.

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Of course. Doesn’t always work unfortunately.

Unfortunately. :slight_smile:

I do that with men pictures from dating apps…

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Is there someone here who can advise on how to improve the “reverse gallop”? My horse seems to have a natural talent for it but I would like professional help…😛

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YouTube has all sorts of reverse gallop lesson videos – seems like it would be tricky for a single-toed species to master, so your horse must be quite the heavy metal guitarist!

Hopefully that little terminological gem is enough of a red flag to keep anyone else from getting taken in by that particular scam ad! Though I realize it’s hard to resist a self-evident gelding with great book freedom…

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Many Europeans have been scammed along with my friend and possibly others. I get that the ad is funny, but it’s a very sad situation when someone is victimized.

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Of course it’s a shame that your friend and others (European or otherwise) fell victim to this scam. I’m horrified by that.

And forgive me if “reverse gallop” is some pan-European dressage term that I’m not familiar with, but from my perspective pointing out that it’s a guitar term (and not, at least to my knowledge, an equestrian term) and keeping your thread active are potentially helpful w.r.t. helping others spot the scam. Isn’t awareness at least part of why you updated with the new horse postings?

I didn’t realize that having a laugh along the way at the metal-head scumbag who perpetrated this would be so painful to you, but if levity is unwelcome here, so be it.

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