EMS diet can’t hurt anything until testing can be completed. If it comes back positive, than op has a head start.
I’ve seen TB’s test for EMS. Rare but happens.
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Only the wallet and the horse if she really is that hard of a keeper, for a somewhat unlikely cause of the horse’s problems. I wouldn’t rule out testing, but it wouldn’t be the first thing I spent several hundred dollars on in this case. I do think the stated plan to pull the Ultium in favor of something lower NSC is a good compromise.
YMMV, of course. I do think the emergency diet and IR/metabolic management is key for a lot of horses, but it can’t be said that it’s cheap or easy to do!
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You can use the blue Styrofoam and layer the sheets, cutting the piece away that goes over the coffin bone to reduce pressure there. There are videos out there on You tube showing how to do this. But my experience is that you need to tape them on with elasticon to keep the foam from shifting or coming off. Not the easiest to apply. Need a good vocabulary of cuss words. You would need a larger boot to go over this.
And I have found camping mat available in a blue roll at Walmart is a little thicker than yoga mats. It does squish down though so it needs to be replaced at least 1x a day. There is a gel type pad I have bought at TSC that does not compress as much. The comfort pads do seem to last longer than the camping mats.
My friend’s ginormous WB got laminitis as a 4 or 5 year old following vaccinations. He is at least 18 hands tall now (and maybe not done?) and doesn’t look one bit metabolic.
Anyway, it won’t hurt, might help the decision making, and doesn’t cost a lot to do some testing on OP’s horse. I mean, how many times does this board advise people to test for EPM, Lyme, vitamin E or Se levels, etc. even when the horse is not highly likely to have one/some of those issues? I’ve done it myself. I probably put off testing my horse for ID for too long, actually. I just figured he would be able to lose the weight like he always did (he’s easy to gain but also has historically been easy to lose). But he was eating a diet ration and finally doing a fair amount of canter work, yet still getting bigger. Thankfully his baseline insulin has never been in the super danger zone for laminitis, but the oral sugar test response was off the charts (literally higher than the test would go for the whole 90 mins).
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My horse just went through something similar as your horse’s feet. Getting the feet right is super important. Farrier had trimmed him too short and his front toes were bad. Vet checked and found sole so thin at toe, that a hand push hurt. I put him in Easyboot trail boots without pads. His case was just a short trim. The other piece I am learning is that horses can get very concerned when they have mobility issues, so started some Nexium. That made him so much more peaceful about using his feet. It’s raining a lot, and boots had to come off way sooner than I expected. Today, about 3 weeks post trim, he has grown a nice thick pad of callus right at the toe. He’s now sound enough for an easy ride in the soft ring.
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Thanks for the video. The learning, what is a normal hoof, resonates.
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So I got another quote for surgery, about half what the other clinic stated. I am still on the fence about it, and am not sure if I should maybe try non-surgical options first.
I am leaning towards a second opinion either way because apparently the diagnosing vet used their low power machine and I think a more clear picture would be helpful. I’m aware that you can’t see everything on field ultrasound, but I’m thinking that maybe some of the “noise” and lack of clarity could be related to the machine?
I’m still not sure surgical debridement is helpful in most cases, and since I’m not making an insurance claim I don’t see much point in doing surgery just to see what’s in there when the ultimate treatment will be the same. I think I need a clearer picture of what is to be done about it before I go there.
In the meantime, I’m focusing on the feet and getting those comfortable and in better shape!
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I’m going back 5 or 6 years, so the biologics have made significant advances since then, but when my giant moose of a warmblood came up with a significant stifle lameness, my vet recommended against exploratory surgery, his view being that it was invasive and could do even more damage, and we went straight to stem cell. He harvested fat from his sternum and sent it out to be processed.
The lab delivered us chilled stem cells every few weeks and the vet came over and injected them.
With that and about 6 months of small paddock turnout (he was so not a candidate for stall rest) he came sound enough for 2nd level dressage and I rode him for another 2 years.
He never could get a flying change on that side though. He’s now retired due to a chronic on/off lameness issue on the opposite front, which is interesting and I have wondered about the relationship between the two.
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That’s interesting! Stem cells are an option but very expensive, I didn’t get a quote for them from the cheaper place though. I’m guessing you never got a diagnosis on the front issue?
The opposite front is the one with the rotation on my horse, so we are guessing it’s related. I have been paddock resting her at night as I am not able to stall rest and it’s so hot right now they all just stand under the shelter and swish flies during the day anyway. I also have not had good luck with stall rest for soft tissue issues in the past once they’re past the initial phase.
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He was 20ish then so we weren’t going to go for much more than the basic diagnostics, no MRIs, etc.
He’s quite happy moseying around a pasture–so much so that people ask why I don’t bring him back to work, but he obviously gets “zingers” through that foot and can be dangerously unpredictable under saddle when he does. Which is why he’s retired. Its remarkable how many people think that they could magikally get him sound and return him to his former glory.
4 years and counting of nice retirement board is, however, something I choose not to do the math for. Were I a more practical person I should not have embarked on this financial drain.
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Update, got a second opinion.
Second opinion vet thinks the feet show very thin soles but no founder or real rotation. Borderline, if anything, and mechanical in nature due to the thin soles. They want her in shoes and pads all around because she is ridiculously footsore, the reason I originally had a vet out. I will not use my current farrier for shoes and I have some concerns about keeping shoes on her as she doesn’t have much wall to spare and has a history of yanking shoes off in a matter of days. I do have another farrier to try just for her, though. It’ll be a logistical nightmare but she’s uncomfortable so I’ll do it. I’d prefer boots but I think the trim has to change regardless.
The second opinion vet also said the original stifle ultrasounds are hard to interpret due to not being labeled well so they aren’t sure what exactly they are looking at. They did say she has some bony “differences” on X-ray are likely congenital vs an injury and may be contributing. Something about certain structures being flatter than normal. This vet does not suggest surgery at this time as the horse doesn’t really flex off. They suggested doing IRAP, Adequan/Zycosan, and estrone and putting her to work to see if all of that plus shoes gets us a functional horse.
I pulled for IRAP and got the estrone, but need to coordinate with a farrier before we start injecting. The vet says the IRAP will be almost pointless until we get her comfortable on her feet and I agree. I doubled up the pads in her front boots today and will cut pads for her back boots next, and I’m looking into shoe options. I’m thinking composites and entertaining glue ons if only because they are less likely to take hoof with them if she yanks them off.
It was a very expensive visit, but I walked away feeling more optimistic than I have since the last appointment. We went from Wobblers to founder to $$$$$ surgery to something a little more manageable. It’s been a rollercoaster.
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That’s a positive update!
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There’s another thread here about glue ons (Has anyone done this: DIY glue ons after farrier trims). I’ve got a few horses in them and would highly recommend them. They actually can act as the shoe and pad (depending on the model) and it’s not too hard to re apply yourself if she pulls them (which does happen but it’s much less common than in nail ons). These are what my farrier recommends: https://easycareinc.com/EasyShoe/EasyShoe-Versa-Grip-Glue.asp.
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That is a very sound (no pun intended) protocol. And manageable as you said. I think most of us on this site are willing to do what it takes to make and keep our beloved horses comfortable. It’s not easy and it definitely costs money. But it is worth it.
Looking forward to positive updates in your mare.
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Update with some questions:
Footsoreness is getting worse. New farrier is scheduled for mid-July (earliest possible). In the meantime I have had my mare in boots and pads up front until a boot ripped irreparably and I ordered a replacement. My mare made it 1.5 days barefoot before she became incredibly sore, so I taped pads to her feet and put her in my other horse’s boots that are 2 sizes larger. She’s comfortable in the boots and pads.
Recently I have noticed that her front soles and frogs are white, chalky, and I’m able to scrape material off of both with a hoof pick. Her backs are not doing the same, though I’m seeing new bruising. I thought that chalkiness was dead material trying to exfoliate, but she doesn’t have much material to lose? I’ve not seen it on frogs before either. Could this be something else contributing to the soreness? I have sporadically packed her feet with sugardine due to some stinky thrush, but it’s been irregular and the chalkiness predates the sugardine.
TLDR: white chalky shedding on front hoof soles and frogs that scrapes off with a pick? Dead material or possibly something else?
Ugh. I feel bad for her. It’s incredible how she went from sound barefoot except on the rocks to EXTREMELY sore in turnout without boots + pads. Vet did say she’s been trimmed very short, but the last time she was trimmed was end of May and she’s just been getting more sore. Hopefully the new farrier can help, and my vet is keeping an eye on her.
There will be others with far better insight and advice than I could ever give, but I wanted to ask if you’ve ever used Durasole on her? I use it on my thin-soled gelding, and I like it because it can be put all over the bottom of their feet, frog included, and not only toughens them up, but also helps with anything like thrush or white line. I’ve noticed that when my gelding is a little ouchy, maybe right after a trim or after we’ve had some wet weather and his feet are softer, using Durasole regularly will usually help him.
Just a thought.
I have no experience with hoof boots but do they hold in moisture? I just wonder if her feet are too damp being in boots/ pads all the time?
It’s been bone dry here, and she gets the boots off for a couple hours each day to air out her feet. Standard procedure for boots, and I use gold bond in there as well.
It was just a thought. I didn’t know if their feet get hot and sweat in there like some people have issues with sweaty feet. Mine are always cold.
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This is very standard for horses in 24/7 hoof boots, even with dry environment and a couple hours to dry out every day plus powder. The hoof does actually sweat some moisture through the day, plus whatever moisture from skin and hair that are covered by the boot. It’s normal. I just brush it off with a firm brush and reapply powder.
I’ve also used Hoof Armor, suggested above, to help, and it does help stop the chalkiness and build up more sole in boots.
What is she eating? Forgive me, but have you posted pictures of her feet? What boots and pads are you using?
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