UPDATE - RIP Shade - words can`t describe the loss

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=cnigh;6888544]
Also wanted to be clear. Shade will only be PTS if the infection becomes life threatening. At this point it is not.[/QUOTE]

Most vets that I know consider a pyo to be a life threatening condition. It is a massive infection of her uterus. You are fortunate that it is open and not closed, which might give you a few days but truly…she could go septic and die of shock in a matter of hours if she takes a turn. If I understand this correctly, when a vet does a spay, and especially with a pyo, they don’t open the uterus. They remove the organ whole. So there would be no releasing infection into her body cavity.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;6888572]
I am also in Ontario and can give you a huge list of rescue organizations that will take her and give her the care she needs.[/QUOTE]

you. are. marvelous.

[Lazy_Palomino_Hunter]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;6888546]
If the uterus is removed, there is no place for a pyometra to happen. It would not have happened with a routine spay.[/QUOTE]

Stump pyometra can certainly happen. That said, it’s pretty rare… vs. the portion of unspayed females who will develop regular ol’ pyo. And my understanding is that stump pyo is not a fraction as serious as the real deal.

I understand the desire to not want to put a pet under unnecessarily, but IMO a spay is a procedure well worth the risk. Unspayed females are at a wildly increased risk of breast cancer (25%, vs. 0.5% of dogs spayed before the first heat) and pyometra (depending on stats source, between 30% and 66% of unspayed bitches over 9, vs. 1% of spayed bitches).

IMO, any of the risks associates with spaying–slightly elevated risks of thyroid problems, osteosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma, etc.–really don’t hold a candle to the threat of breast cancer or pyo for an unspayed female dog.

Jingles for your girl, OP. What she is going through sounds very scary.

[cnigh]

[QUOTE=threedogpack;6888580]
Most vets that I know consider a pyo to be a life threatening condition. It is a massive infection of her uterus. You are fortunate that it is open and not closed, which might give you a few days but truly…she could go septic and die of shock in a matter of hours if she takes a turn. If I understand this correctly, when a vet does a spay, and especially with a pyo, they don’t open the uterus. They remove the organ whole. So there would be no releasing infection into her body cavity.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. This is what I was worried about.

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;6888523]
Hey All,

With all the studies coming out now about the health risks/benefits of spaying a bitch vs keeping her intact, I think we should focus now on the OPs current situation, rather than questioning the decision not to spay this bitch. Remember 90% of bitches in Sweden are kept intact, it is thought that it is better for the bitch to keep her intact until and unless there is a health issue that requires spaying, and recent research tends to support this view. Who knows whether if OP had spayed this bitch, she might have already developed bone cancer and might have had to be euthanized years ago?

But to address your question, OP, no, I have not known many bitches with pyo to do well without surgery, though I’ve known of some who have tried. My repro vet tells me she has had some success with treating with prostaglandin F two alpha along with antibiotics, but that does have side effects and I do not know the success rate. But it might buy you some time.

The price you have been quoted seems very high to me, I would think you would be able to find a vet who would do it for less than 2K, though I do not not where you are located and prices do vary widely.

If you think it best to go ahead and euthanize her, so be it, do not beat yourself up or blame yourself for not having spayed her, because who knows what her health outcome might have been. You did what you thought best for her and what you could do. I have six intact bitches from ages 18 months to eight and a half years, and while they are show/breeding Irish Wolfhounds, I would make the same decision to keep them intact if they were strictly companions, as I believe it is what is best for their health. If spayed, they would be at greater risk to develop bone cancer and other cancers which they would not survive, than pyo which is usually more treatable.[/QUOTE]

In 40 years of owning dogs that were spayed/neutered, I’ve never had one develop any cancer. And I’ve usually had at least 2-5 dogs at any given time (and kept them all until they died of old age, were euthed for heart failure, or other age related illness.

[Cashela]

I hope your dog gets better. Sending good thoughts.

[RottiMom]

SOrry to hear about your dog, I really hope she pulls through.

I have a rotti who has bone cancer, and she is intact.

I have, and have had rotti’s for a long time. I bred them, but havent in some time. Up until the past several years I had always spayed them, as thats what was recommended. Now, the breeders have recommended leaving intact. Well, low and behold I now have an intact female with bone cancer. My oldest rotti is 15 right now, going strong and she is spayed. She does dribble urine in her sleep though.

I am seriously considering spaying now.

[SquishTheBunny]

Not sure exactly in Ontario where you are, but here’s a start:

Low Cost Spay/Neuter
http://www.toronto.ca/animal_services/spay_neuter.htm

Rescues that will provide her with surgery:
http://www.torontohumanesociety.com/ They are open Saturday/Sunday and WILL spend money on your dog to make her better/adoptable. Surrender fee is $50.

I have a list of about 75 private rescue organizations in ontario that are privately and publically funded.

PLEASE PM me if you need any help.

REALLY hope your dog responds to antibiotics or that you can pull through with a surgery on Monday…but if not, the links above should help if things go downhill beforehand.

[cnigh]

Thank you very much SquishTheBunny. We are looking at all of our options.

[lovey1121]

Seconding LauraKY’s gratitude to Squish. Thank you.

cnigh, jingles for your beautiful girl.

[Simkie]

Squish, you’re awesome.

OP, I hope your girl pulls through. But if you’ve got an intact bitch, you’ve got to be mindful of the possibility of a pyo. If you don’t want to have to deal with a pyo (and the potential costs involved) then you have to spay. Risk of a pyo sometime in the lifetime of a 10 year old bitch is over 20%. Nearly one in four. That is HUGE.

And I share this info as someone who had a dog with a closed pyo, who had emergency surgery on New Years Eve to save her life. I also didn’t want to put my dog through “unnecessary” surgery. I was in the room during the pyo spay, and it was far longer, the incision was far larger and recovery was far more complex because of the infection.

My next intact bitch (I show–they have to be intact) will be spayed laproscopically once she’s done showing. Better to do it on my timeline than to risk the life of the dog and do it on an emergency basis.

I would encourage you to reconsider your stance on spaying. The risk of leaving a bitch intact is quite large.

[Marshfield]

[QUOTE=cnigh;6888534]
Thank you for the replies.

For those that asked, no I do not believe in spaying all female animals. I don`t breed, but I have never put any animal through surgery without a reason. Yes, spaying MIGHT have prevented this infection, but it also might not have.

If the antibiotics work she will be spayed to prevent future infections. This will give us 6 weeks to come up with the additional funds. I`m praying to the truck driver gods that the season picks up soon. No work = no $$[/QUOTE]

Spaying her would absolutely have prevented this from occurring.

[danceronice]

$3000-5000? Jays. I’m glad I have a relatively cheap vet (not really cheap, but less than that) and access to a cheaper one…though I can see spaying while the infection is acute is more complicated than a simple spay (which wouldn’t even come close to $500 at the pricier vet around here.)

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=danceronice;6888928]
$3000-5000? Jays. [/QUOTE]

The c-section for my bitch wasn’t that much. Of course it was planned, but still. Even the emergency one was only $1200.

[SquishTheBunny]

Ontario prices are a little more expensive…general after hour pyo surgery here is $2000. With complications of sepsis, it could go up from there. Generally, if done within a reasonable timeframe though all in, the dogs go home around the $2000 mark. Routine immature spays range from $350-500 here. C sections require less drugs and often try to send the puppies/mom home same night. Its the additional IV fluids, antibiotics and overnight stays that increase the bills.
I love doing the anesthesia for C sections

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;6888963]
Ontario prices are a little more expensive…general after hour pyo surgery here is $2000. With complications of sepsis, it could go up from there. Generally, if done within a reasonable timeframe though all in, the dogs go home around the $2000 mark. Routine immature spays range from $350-500 here. C sections require less drugs and often try to send the puppies/mom home same night. Its the additional IV fluids, antibiotics and overnight stays that increase the bills.
I love doing the anesthesia for C sections :D[/QUOTE]

you mean take less drugs than an emergency spay? knocks on wood I’ve never had to do an emergency spay.

[cowboymom]

Have female dogs always had these problems, even before spaying was common or currently in countries where it isn’t common? I assume the other countries is where the data is coming from? It seems weird that one out of four bitches would have a life-threatening problem makes me wonder about the cause.

[threedogpack]

I think nearly everything is a bit more money up north of us. I know it costs an arm and a leg for camera lenses up there.

[threedogpack]

[QUOTE=cowboymom;6888968]
Have female dogs always had these problems, even before spaying was common or currently in countries where it isn’t common? I assume the other countries is where the data is coming from? It seems weird that one out of four bitches would have a life-threatening problem makes me wonder about the cause.[/QUOTE]

the cause is simple, when the bitch comes in heat, her cervix opens, allowing for bacteria to make their way in.

http://www.svsvet.com/resources/canine-pyometra

I doubt the information is from other countries. I know, personally of 3 bitches not spayed that developed pyos. One was 8, one 10 and one nearly 10.

[cowboymom]

Why don’t mares have problems with it? Why don’t cats? Do wolves and coyotes? Why dogs? Or is the cervix not open during a heat for horses or cats?

I’m in the throes of a raging sinus/ear/throat infection so maybe I’m being dumb here…