USDF AA Divisions by Age

[atlatl]

@Silverbridge

You don’t know ANYONE who bought an FEI-level horse or even a GP horse as their very first dressage horse, and debuted in competition at those levels? In late middle age, and, after only a few months of lessons?

I know several who did so, and know of several more. I can think of two ladies right off the top of my head in AZ and CA who showed at GP their very first times down CL. And after a few attempts, they got their scores for Gold Medals and THEN did the I-2, and were in the USDF Yearbook for their Golds. And then as time went on, they eventually began to show at lower levels. And by that, I mean down to Third, Fourth, and PSG.
…

Just curious, did these ladies you know have any previous riding experience?

Frankly, I wouldn’t blink very hard if say Beezie Madden decided to take up dressage and started at FEI levels, even GP. Yes, that’s an extreme example.

I had riders at a barn that were doing “dressage” longer than I get miffed when I got my bronze before them. While I did it on a schoolmaster, I also had well over a decade of AQHA all around competition so I wasn’t exactly a beginner when I started dressage.

[atlatl]

@NotGrandPrixYet

So would a rider be obligated to enter that class and not be able to compete against everyone else then? Or would this be an optional class?

Some shows in CA have an over 50 division; you can enter that class or go in the OPEN or regular AA class.

Any one can enter the OPEN division if they want to COMPETE.

In reality, we’re really “just” competing against the standard and our last scores anyway. I don’t get why the big reaction one way or another. If some people want a better chance at a ribbon, so what? My concern is my scores.

[Heinz_57]

I am not currently a member of anything, because I haven’t shown in years - so I didn’t get the survey, but frankly I think dressage would benefit more from switching to the Danish system of awarding ribbons based on achievement level, versus the current ‘only one person gets the blue’ American system.

Since we’re all supposedly competing only against ourselves and against the standard, it never made any sense to me why we are then also made to compete against each other. One can “win” a class right now with a 50%, you just have to be the least worst to get the blue.

[xQHDQ]

I would rather have “shown above 2nd” and “not shown above 2nd” divisions than age divisions. Of course this would only apply to those showing in training level and first.

AQHA has a Novice Amateur division that you point out of after X points (can’t remember how many) - points awarded are based on placings and number of horses in each class.

I don’t like age to be the dividing factor. There are some horrible 30-something riders and some really good 60 year-olds. It would be more fair if it were based on experience. It also seem age-discriminatory.

[pluvinel]

@SillyHorse

Irrelevant examples. There are (were) all remarkable, phenomenal horsemen, not AA ladies in flyover country.

That is EXACTLY the reason to compete with people of Reiner Klimke’s caliber…so you can see how the best ride, what they do, and to educate one’s eyes.

To say “AA ladies in flyover country”…is an insulting label that speaks to curse these riders to the eternal damnation of perpetual Training Level.

[lorilu]

@lorilu

I dont think it would be classes. Even now most shows around here have joint Open/AA classes and split the ribbons if there are 3 or more of either… IRT to proposal, not sure how this is different from the Vintage Cup. And IRT show costs, any award USDF offers is likely to have the same requirements as all the others - 4 shows, 8 scores (TL-4) or 4 scores (FEI), from four different judges.

SO I just learned from the GMO Officials FB page that it is not a national YEA thng - rather its for shows. So I wonder what show managers feel about this.

[SillyHorse]

@pluvinel

That is EXACTLY the reason to compete with people of Reiner Klimke’s caliber…so you can see how the best ride, what they do, and to educate one’s eyes.

It’s not at all necessary to compete against the best to see how they ride, what they do, etc., so I don’t understand your point.

@pluvinel

To say “AA ladies in flyover country”…is an insulting label that speaks to curse these riders to the eternal damnation of perpetual Training Level.

I am an AA lady in flyover country. :lol:

[Snowdenfarm]

@netg

My thought was that divisions should instead be novice vs those more experienced at the level, much as the novice rider divisions in eventing.
Riders in the over 50 category typically have far more knowledge and experience, which is an advantage over younger riders. Yes, younger riders bounce more readily so that is their advantage. Also, older riders *should * have stronger financial situations, where they can afford quality horses and training. And yet, they may be facing injuries or health issues.
I know my third time at Training level I know way more than I did my first time. I think being separated to a separate division from those who are new to dressage helps make it a more welcoming place.

I made that suggestion in the comments, and highly recommend everyone who agrees agrees do the same.

I said if they are going to have an age-related division, it should be at least 60 since age-related decline does not happen until well after 50. Then I made the same suggestion as you – they need an adult novice division for all adults over junior/young rider age.

[PonyApocalypse19]

My mother is 65+ (I’m not allowed to say her actual age anymore). She just got a small horse to finish working on her bronze medal since our old schoolmaster is more towards the retired side of semi-retired and can’t show any more. She asked me if there was an award for 65+, I told her yes there was, but it wasn’t what she thinks it is. She hasn’t shown much for various reasons and I think she would benefit from a 55+ group of classes. It would encourage her to show more and give her something to strive for. She sees it as a smaller group to compete against and a way to get some more experience with less pressure. Again this is how she thinks, not necessarily what reality will be! I support the idea mainly for her and other like her who find the regular classes intimidating.

[exvet]

I’m 56 and still backing/starting young stock though I do feel it more than I did. I find the idea somewhat pointless unless…and I’ll get to that in a moment. If you want to show but lessen the pressure, there are schooling shows. If one is riding for a medal (as am I) then you’re not riding against others at all. You are riding against yourself striving to score above a minimum score and do so consistently enough that you earn ‘that’ medal. You don’t earn a different/lower score because there are two or more late 20 somethings in your test/class. While riding for specific medals I have never paid any attention to who else was in my class/test. What I would like to know isn’t just what show management thinks about this but if this will increase the cost (to all of us) to show or will there be a difference in class fee if we were to select this designation? If the class fee were less in order to show as a ‘golden oldie’ then this ancient old bag would definitely show more…

[Lucassb]

Coming as I do from decades in the hunters, an age split seems totally normal to me. And even back then, at least on the east coast, we had “youngers,” (18-35) “middles.” (36-49) and “olders,” (50+). We all wanted to stay middles forever, lol, because the youngers were mostly fresh out of the junior ranks, good riding jocks mostly still mounted on the fantastic horses their parents had purchased for their junior years.

By the time one got to the middles, one was squarely in the throes of adulting - juggling jobs and kids and paying the bills - so it was a friendly and supportive group that liked to show (and drink adult beverages) together.

We were all wary of the “olders,” who were on the back side of those adulting responsibilities, rode freaking great and were mostly super well mounted!!! Think Betty Oare (https://www.chronofhorse.com/article…rsday-be-betty)

Anyway. I got the survey and filled it out but I’m not 100% clear what the point is. As much as I love a pretty ribbon - and I admit I really do love them - I am opposed to participation trophies on principle. I’d be squarely in that olders category now and I am fine with competing against any other amateur adults. I am a little creakier (some days a lot creakier) than I was in my younger days, and I am for sure fatter and less fit. But I am also better educated and a lot better mounted (that career that limited my riding time and resources as a middle has afforded me some nice young horses now!) I love the concept of riding against myself and the test, seeing what I can improve each time. But if the shows want to hand out more ribbons, I guess I have no real objection.