USDF - Love it or Hate it

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8552770]
Well After I paid for 3 memberships i still Need to Pay 10 extra Bucks for the Qualifying thing at Shows per Class. You end up with all the fees at about 300 Dollar per horse per Day additionally. Maybe Thats cheap for you but not sure how many People can afford 1200 Dollar if they want to take 2 Horses for a 2 day show… Not sure if all these beautiful programs make sense if they eliminate most of the potential riders…[/QUOTE]

Hmm, not sure what class fees you are paying, but last year I paid $40 for non-qualifying classes, and $50 for qualifying classes. Don’t forget that the basic class fee is assessed by the organization putting on the competition. The extra charge for qualifying classes is because it costs USDF extra money to track eligiblity for Regional Championships.

[MysticOakRanch]

Down Yonder, you are getting a great deal! We pay about $55/class and $65/qualifying classes for national levels, and sometimes more for FEI level classes. Then add on office fees (usually $25/horse/rider combo) and either haul-in or stabling fee ($25/day/horse or $160 - 200/weekend). So if you are not stabling, and showing two classes on a single day and one of those is qualifying, it will cost $170 plus another $16 for various drug and travel fees. For a weekend, 4 classes and a stall, $425 to $465 plus drug fees. Add to that the membership fees (USEF, USDF, and GMO, roughly $225), and don’t forget Horse Recording/Horse ID fees… It adds up quickly.

Having said that - the reason shows are so much more expensive here Manni - the judges usually have to be flown in (or drive in and are paid mileage, plus their hotel and meal costs, then you also have the TD and EMT (and their mileage/airfare, hotel, and meal costs), plus facility use fee (most places are between $500 and $1000/arena/day), plus ribbons, show management costs, etc. It adds up quickly. Our judges are paid in the US (unlike in most of Europe), and we are required to have both TD and EMT which adds a lot of expense - figure those people are going to average about $500/day EACH with travel costs (if they are paid $250, plus airfare, meals and hotel split over 2 days).

It is expensive to put on a show:no: And of course, USEF, USDF, and in California, CDS all get a cut.

THEN add on the paperwork required by both USEF and USDF, and now you probably need a paid show manager (another cost to the show).

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;8552812]
Hmm, not sure what class fees you are paying, but last year I paid $40 for non-qualifying classes, and $50 for qualifying classes. Don’t forget that the basic class fee is assessed by the organization putting on the competition. The extra charge for qualifying classes is because it costs USDF extra money to track eligiblity for Regional Championships.[/QUOTE]

sorry for my messy post I was using the iphone, which autocorrects weird things… Yes I did mean the $10 extra for the classe to count for qualifying for regionals. So USDF collects an extra membership + $10 per class for everybody wanting to qualify.

It is not really a problem for me, I just need to plan more precise. I use schooling shows to get in shape for the qualifying classes and try to qualify with the absolute minimum of rated shows. It is doable. So I just have to suffer through the double membership. But I love my GMO and really want to support it so no way out of that.
And when you think about 2 qualifying classes, you have $100, then at least another $100 for a stall, then office fee and drug fee and then you pay more then 250 per horse per day. without gas, shavings, and food. If you dare to show 2 horses you pay at least 500 per day just fees… I think thats pricey, but I guess not for everybody… and I am lucky because I dont need a trainer… Just imagine you also have to pay for the trainer… I dont know how we do it in Germany… We also do drug testing, but somehow we pay only a low Classfee and thats it… No office fee, no drug testing fee, no haul in fee, no required stabling, no qualification fee… And I think our shows are just as qualified. And about the judges… Not sure why I need to show in front of a judge from Michigan… I would be perfectly happy to show only with judges from Florida. And I would not mind to ride with the same judge more then once. I basically grew up with 4 or 5 judges in our area… If I save $1000 per weekend, I can live with it…
I dont want to complain, I can live with it, but as this is a thread asking about pros and cons I just wanted to give my opinion

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Mardi;8552628]
The topic of this thread comes at an interesting time. Until now I didn’t think I had a place to voice my experience.

Prior to the Las Vegas convention, my business was asked by USDF to be one of many sponsors for a convention event. I was told, in writing, what I would receive as a sponsor (program listing, social media and USDF website listing). So I supported the event. They thanked me and all was well.

After the convention (which I didn’t attend), I looked for the social media and website listings so I could print it for the business’ advertising records, but couldn’t find it anywhere. I emailed my contact at USDF and asked where I could find it. The reply was only that they could send me the convention program “if some were still around.” Ok, thank you. And what about the promised social media/USDF website listings ? No response.

So here’s my response to them: Never again.[/QUOTE]

I am guessing sponsor info was included in the section of the web site specifically devoted to the convention - and those pages are archived after the convention. Same for social media - they put sponsor info on the FB page created for that specific event. And it goes bye-bye once the event occurs.

At least, that is what I ran into when we sponsored stuff for US Dressage Finals.

[TwoRoads]

Half of that $10 per qualifying class immediately goes back to prize money for regionals.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8552940]
sorry for my messy post I was using the iphone, which autocorrects weird things… Yes I did mean the $10 extra for the classe to count for qualifying for regionals. So USDF collects an extra membership + $10 per class for everybody wanting to qualify.

It is not really a problem for me, I just need to plan more precise. I use schooling shows to get in shape for the qualifying classes and try to qualify with the absolute minimum of rated shows. It is doable. So I just have to suffer through the double membership. But I love my GMO and really want to support it so no way out of that.
And when you think about 2 qualifying classes, you have $100, then at least another $100 for a stall, then office fee and drug fee and then you pay more then 250 per horse per day. without gas, shavings, and food. If you dare to show 2 horses you pay at least 500 per day just fees… I think thats pricey, but I guess not for everybody… and I am lucky because I dont need a trainer… Just imagine you also have to pay for the trainer… I dont know how we do it in Germany… We also do drug testing, but somehow we pay only a low Classfee and thats it… No office fee, no drug testing fee, no haul in fee, no required stabling, no qualification fee… And I think our shows are just as qualified. And about the judges… Not sure why I need to show in front of a judge from Michigan… I would be perfectly happy to show only with judges from Florida. And I would not mind to ride with the same judge more then once. I basically grew up with 4 or 5 judges in our area… If I save $1000 per weekend, I can live with it…
I dont want to complain, I can live with it, but as this is a thread asking about pros and cons I just wanted to give my opinion[/QUOTE]

I guess I was trying to point out that very little of the overall expense of horse showing is due to USDF fees. The only money that gets passed to USDF by the show organizer is $10 per qualifying ride, as well as any other fees they were required to collect due to competitors not having current / right type of membership, and/or horse registration/recording, etc.

The biggest expenses for me are stabling, shavings, and tack stall - which easily adds on $200+. And then of course, there are costs for hotel, meals, gas, etc.

[rjr]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8552940]
I dont know how we do it in Germany… We also do drug testing, but somehow we pay only a low Classfee and thats it… No office fee, no drug testing fee, no haul in fee, no required stabling, no qualification fee… And I think our shows are just as qualified. And about the judges… Not sure why I need to show in front of a judge from Michigan… I would be perfectly happy to show only with judges from Florida. And I would not mind to ride with the same judge more then once. I basically grew up with 4 or 5 judges in our area… If I save $1000 per weekend, I can live with it…
I dont want to complain, I can live with it, but as this is a thread asking about pros and cons I just wanted to give my opinion[/QUOTE]

It sounds like you sort of fall in-between the USDF show type and the schooling show type – and neither venue can be all things to all people. Although you may not need judges from far away, there are good reasons that a USDF show needs to hire them. At recognized shows, a judge cannot judge any of their own students or clients (including recent clinic clients), so that makes it impractical for judges to officiate in their local areas. Also, many competitors DO need to show under a variety of judges - to be eligible for championships and year-end awards, for the experience, etc. I think the USDF rules are there for good reasons. They are quite applicable for some of the other competitors to whom the year end-awards are VERY important, and can make a difference in professional reputation, publicity, horse prices, and highly sought after recognition.

I think that many of the people with this type of complains about USDF might be better served by local schooling shows. There are a lot of people who do not want to be competitve at a national level, or compare themselves those who are. But, USDF is the venue for peole who do want this type of competition system.

As for how Germany is able to do it more economicaly: I’m sure some of it just has to do with being “rich Americans”. But I’m sure that most of it has to do with the popularity of horse sports there. I saw some numbers recently which showed that Germany has something like 20 - 30 times as many dressage riders per capita as the US does. That sort of of popularity would lead make it much more accessible in many ways.

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=rjr;8553278]
It sounds like you sort of fall in-between the USDF show type and the schooling show type – and neither venue can be all things to all people. Although you may not need judges from far away, there are good reasons that a USDF show needs to hire them. At recognized shows, a judge cannot judge any of their own students or clients (including recent clinic clients), so that makes it impractical for judges to officiate in their local areas. Also, many competitors DO need to show under a variety of judges - to be eligible for championships and year-end awards, for the experience, etc. I think the USDF rules are there for good reasons. They are quite applicable for some of the other competitors to whom the year end-awards are VERY important, and can make a difference in professional reputation, publicity, horse prices, and highly sought after recognition.

I think that many of the people with this type of complains about USDF might be better served by local schooling shows. There are a lot of people who do not want to be competitve at a national level, or compare themselves those who are. But, USDF is the venue for peole who do want this type of competition system.

As for how Germany is able to do it more economicaly: I’m sure some of it just has to do with being “rich Americans”. But I’m sure that most of it has to do with the popularity of horse sports there. I saw some numbers recently which showed that Germany has something like 20 - 30 times as many dressage riders per capita as the US does. That sort of of popularity would lead make it much more accessible in many ways.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your very nice post! Maybe I do fall in between. Many members of my GMO only show in our schooling shows because they see no reason to show recognized and somehow I think the number is growing which I thought to be sad.

I am neither a trainer, nor do I want to sell my horses for big bucks.   I do admit I would like to move up the levels (as far as my horses and me make it....)   and I will need the recognized shows in order to find out where I am with my progress.     I do enjoy Florida with all its possibilities and want to use it.  And maybe I just need to get used to the picture that in the US  recognized shows are only something for the very rich and the professionals.   As I said, I can adjust and use both systems for my purposes.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;8553008]
I am guessing sponsor info was included in the section of the web site specifically devoted to the convention - and those pages are archived after the convention. Same for social media - they put sponsor info on the FB page created for that specific event. And it goes bye-bye once the event occurs.

At least, that is what I ran into when we sponsored stuff for US Dressage Finals.[/QUOTE]

Sounds reasonable, and if that was the case, then USDF could have explained that to me when I asked about it post-convention. Instead there was no response. Only crickets.

The FB page is a permanent page, still up and active, with posts that precede the convention.

Sooooo… it’s one of those things where someone dropped the ball, and instead of following good business practice (follow up and respond to the person who supported you !!!), there’s silence.

We would probably all agree that had they responded with some explanation, their odds of receiving another sponsorship in the future would be better.

As it is now, fuhgeddaboudit.

[lorilu]

[QUOTE=J-Lu;8550807]
Thank you for discussing the founding and history of the USDF. Dressage in America certainly benefited from the organized riders/trainers in the 1970s and 80s. I posit that dressage is a very different sport these days.

I would love to attend a USDF convention. I posit that the people who attend are people who can afford the airfare, hotel and registration fees…and that is not the average USDF member. You illustrate my frustration with the USDF - those of us who can’t attend the convention, those of us who can’t attend Dressage Committee meetings (the ones that are open), those of us who have contacted the Dressage Committee but didn’t seem to be taken seriously…we don’t seem to have much of a voice.[/QUOTE]

I have a few ideas.
First, every GMO has one or more votes in the Board of Governor’s meeting. Perhaps you could attend “on your GMO’s dime” - at least covering registration fees - to carry their vote? Many GMOs give their votes to a proxy because they cannot find someone to attend!

Second, MOST of the meeting at the convention are open. Additionally, there are many educational seminars. All included in the registration fee.

Are you a member of your local GMO?

Finally, I think you are mixing USEF and USDF conventions. “Dressage Committee” is USEF (I believe - I have not heard that term associated with USDF)… I have always found folks at USDF to be very responsive. Remember you also have a Regional GMO representative, and a Regional Director, who are more than willing to help. That info can be found on the USDF website.

L

[lorilu]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8551248]
You are correct - it was on the West Coast this past year, so I looked into going. I could get an airfare/hotel package (if I went with a friend and we shared a room), but with that package plus registration for the convention (it isn’t free), it was going to be about $800 each - plus food. Needless to say, I didn’t go. Kind of bummed, because it doesn’t come out west often, but I just couldn’t justify that kind of expense for a weekend of the “inside scoop”. And there were some important issues discussed - I would have liked to participate![/QUOTE]

No, the USDF convention was in Vegas. Perhaps you mean the USEF convention?
Next year the USDF convention is in St. Louis.

[lorilu]

[QUOTE=Manni01;8551658]
Great post, I just got home from a Clinic with Janet Foy which was hosted by our GMO. Yes most of our riders are below 2nd level as well but our GMO is very active and provides a lot of possibilites to the members (and other people as well) I am more in favor of the GMO thing right now than in the USDF… I especially do not unterstand why you have to be a member of USDF if you want to qualify for regionals. That means you have to be a double member of USDF Doesnt really make sense to me… I would be very happy to just be a member of my GMO which supports me. So far USDF hasnt really supported me. They only take my money…[/QUOTE]

Hey! Was that the clinic at Prospect Stable in Sarasota? I was there riding Bravo!
You have to be a Participating member to qualify for Regionals. However, I believe you can work on your medals with only your GMO membership (“Group Member”.

[lorilu]

[QUOTE=Velvet;8552117]
You are missing the point. The point is that the GMO is collecting fees on top of what they require of their members simply to run their own local programs. In areas with fewer riders with less funds, this stops many from joining. This is a pitiful way for the USDF to behave. They are leaches for the small and medium sized GMOs. They force them to ask for larger membership fees and drive people away. Maybe this is the intent and they want a more elitist organization.[/QUOTE]

How else do you want the GMOs to run programs? I guarantee USDF does not want an elitist organization. Our GMO has a $40 membership fee… and yes, we do charge for other things we do (such as clinics), but ALWAYS have reduced rates for members. Most of our funds are collected at the schooling shows we run.
And frankly I doubt that the $20 your GMO sends to USDF should stop anyone from joining a GMO. That’s what, 4 coffees at Starbucks?

[lorilu]

I would bet that in Germany your national federation is supported by the Government. Not so here in the US.

Another point - shipping in judges is important for recognized shows because many folks school/train with local judges who are also trainers - and rules prohibit showing in front of them within 30 days of training with them. It also means the judge might not be so familiar with the horses/riders… IMO, a good thing.

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=lorilu;8553590]
I would bet that in Germany your national federation is supported by the Government. Not so here in the US.

Another point - shipping in judges is important for recognized shows because many folks school/train with local judges who are also trainers - and rules prohibit showing in front of them within 30 days of training with them. It also means the judge might not be so familiar with the horses/riders… IMO, a good thing.[/QUOTE]

Why do you think the National Federation in Germany is supported by the Government? Its not.

And about the judges… Well I grew up with local judges and usually it kind of turns out even in the long run. There are some judges who train with some people and some who train with others and I guess if you switch them around then everybody gets its chance of a good score… In our area judges were usually tougher with riders from their own barn because they did not care for getting a bad reputation for giving favors to their own riders. Somehow it worked out.

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=lorilu;8553565]
Hey! Was that the clinic at Prospect Stable in Sarasota? I was there riding Bravo!
You have to be a Participating member to qualify for Regionals. However, I believe you can work on your medals with only your GMO membership (“Group Member”.[/QUOTE]

Yes it was. I was riding there as well. And thanks for the info on the medals. I did not know that the GMO membership is sufficient for that.

[Manni01]

sorry doublepost

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=lorilu;8553557]
No, the USDF convention was in Vegas. Perhaps you mean the USEF convention?
Next year the USDF convention is in St. Louis.[/QUOTE]

Huh? That is the western part of the US, so why do you say “no”? Las Vegas is right next to… Southern California? Very seldom does the USDF Convention come west, so this past year, yes, it was west! I am very aware of the difference between USEF and USDF!

[AZ_TD]

I have attended USDF conventions in Portland, OR; Denver, CO; Albq, NM; Dallas, TX; New Orleans, LA, as well as those further east. They try and rotate it and make it as affordable as possible. I enjoy visiting other parts of the US and the dressage enthusiasts from the different areas. These are my vacations, my priority. It is not the same for all and that is OK. Many GMO’s help with expenses to the convention. I budget, save and enjoy the convention.

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8553812]
Huh? That is the western part of the US, so why do you say “no”? Las Vegas is right next to… Southern California? Very seldom does the USDF Convention come west, so this past year, yes, it was west! I am very aware of the difference between USEF and USDF![/QUOTE]

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8553812]
Huh? That is the western part of the US, so why do you say “no”? Las Vegas is right next to… Southern California? Very seldom does the USDF Convention come west, so this past year, yes, it was west! [/QUOTE]

I think the misunderstanding came when it was said that the convention was on the west COAST. Many people don’t think of Las Vegas as being on the west coast, since it’s about 300 miles from the Pacific, and one state over. It may be in the west, but just not the west coast.

If people say east coast, doesn’t that mean all the states along the Atlantic ?

(just asking )