I have 4 vets I work with in New England…all 4 know the rules and will even ask me if I will be competing soon when they suggest a treatment. They also don’t normally treat horses at the show grounds. Is this a case of one vet somewhere out there that is doing something “illegal”? I have news for you, 9 times out of 10 it was the owner or trainer that gave an injection/treatment to a horse not a vet. You also don’t see a lot of dressage people being sanctioned for illegal substances do you?
10 Likes
I think one needs to differentiate between treatment that is not legal for showing and whatever other treatment may be “illegal” according to state/federal law. I am not aware of any of the latter.
Either way, it’s not the vet’s responsibility to make sure any horse is “clean” to show, that’s totally on the owner.
6 Likes
Hopefully the vet will check with the person standing at the end of the lead rope at the time of treatment if the horse is being shown in the near future and let them know if the horse will be able to show in the time frame available. I know our vets at the track will. If they won’t pass a test, they’ll tell DD that they can’t go the next weekend.
1 Like
Hopefully the person standing at the end of the lead rope will tell the vet their show plans and ask.
5 Likes
True. We’ve been spoiled at the track. The vets will straight up tell us. If you do x you can’t do y.
2 Likes
What the hell is “illegal treatment?” The vet is responsible for the health of the horse. If the treatment falls under the “unallowed” treatment under competition rules, then the responsibility falls on the competitor…NOT the vet.
This proposed rule is a bunch of BS…and that is saying it nicely.
11 Likes
I think it is fair for the USEF to say they have a responsibility to stop a vet from continuing to give unallowed treatments to horses at their competitions.
Wouldn’t that be the trainer’s or owner’s responsibility?
9 Likes
We may agree and we may disagree.
I agree that the USEF can establish rules for what are allowed medications or treatments. It is the competitor’s responsibility for their horse to determine whether medically recommended treatments fall within the rules.
The vets are responsible for the patient, the horse. The vets are medical professionals. They are NOT responsible for making sure a competitor is following the competition rules.
14 Likes
exactly!!
2 Likes
I think I’m just imaging a much more unscrupulous vet and situation than all of you.
I’m Dr NastyVet. I have a string of owners and horses that I give unallowed treatments to so they can continue showing their lame horses. This is abuse. Owner Bad gets caught and they get sanctioned. No worries, Dr NastyVet has 10 more clients and keeps treating their horses with unallowed treatment and they are lame but able to show. Dr NastyVet gets to keep perpetuating abuse.
Not all of the horses will be drug tested and the owners caught. So under the current rule only 1 horse is potentially saved from future abuse and 10 more still get it.
Under the new rule Dr NastyVet gets banned and 11 horses now may be safe from abuse. Sure those owners may find other vets but at least by being able to track the owner AND the vet they can hopefully prevent this kind of situation.
1 Like
If someone is showing a lame horse, I would hope the judges would DQ the rider…but otherwise, the system is already in place to deal with this situation.
In every state there is this entity called the Board of Veterinary Licensure (or some variant thereof). If a vet is doing unethical, illegal, or medically harmful actions, these boards will receive complaints about these vets. No USEF required.
If things are really bad, then the Feds have gotten involved. Here is an example from the Department of Justice in a case of doping of racehorses
Again…I think this is a solution looking for a problem. Is there an epidemic of doping in equestrian competitions?
7 Likes
Absolutely not. Say your horse is colicking. Vet administers sedatives and Banamine. Or even just Banamine in violation of the hours restrictions. The competitor is supposed to withdraw the horse at least for the next day. If they don’t follow the rules, that is totally not on the vet. Would you rather USEF say, no, vet, no late night colic calls to the horse show are allowed.
12 Likes
Do you show dressage? If so I would love to know where you see such a Dr. NastVet. Again I think you are going to put the owness of one on the millions. Not fair.
And again, most trainers/owners who show can give their own injections and don’t need a Dr. NastyVet.
4 Likes
So, if your horse needs medical care at a show you think it makes sense to require someone to have to remove the horse from the show grounds before the vet can give it that medical care?
So what if it has something contagious or is so sick or injured it can not walk well, no giving the horse anything it is not allowed to show on while on the show grounds or the vet risks getting in trouble.
Does not sound so logical when you think about it that way, does it?
4 Likes
Remember, the rule isn’t just for USDF. It’s proposed under the general rules which applies across all breeds and disciplines under USEF.
It’s not a current story, but I absolutely remember a certain vet (or two) on the grounds and was selling a calming concoction developed by that vet that “wouldn’t test” (and to my knowledge, it didn’t). I suspect there is some specific knowledge by the veterinary committee that has prompted this rule and it’s not entirely for the reasons stated.
That said, getting a vet for a show isn’t the easiest task for a show manager so I wouldn’t support this unless they create a free membership track for vets who aren’t competitors. Then they could have their cake and eat it too.
8 Likes
This ONLY works if said vet is giving the treatments on the grounds. You can’t possibly be suggesting that the USEF should be able to have overreach on treatment that a horse is getting at home? As others have said, at the end of the day it is on the owner to be sure that whatever treatment plan the vet has falls under the allowed rules that already exist. And I’m not quite sure what you mean by “unallowed treatment” other than drug therapy.
Think of it a bit like HIPAA for horses. So long as the horse can pass an inspection and drug test at the time of competition, the medical decisions about the horse should be made by the vet and the owner, not have the governing body of sport have a hand in the decisions made.
It is one thing for the vets that travels with our teams to be required to be a member of USEF/FEI as they are part of the staff and representing the US wherever the team is competing. This rule change/addition definitely comes across as overkill, a response to some particular situations, and a money grab. It is going to make it even harder for competitions to find on call vets if they are required to be USEF/DF members. Are they going to be required to be Safe Sport compliant? Cut the willing vet pool in half. They don’t have time for that.
7 Likes
So is there an epidemic of horse doping at USEF competitions? What is the problem that this proposed rule is intended to address?
As mentioned upthread, if vets are doing illegal, unethical, or medically unnecessary treatments, the State Vet Boards are there to receive complaints and sanction wayward individuals. Those boards have legal “due process” in place that USEF does not.
Exactly!!! My take is there may be a “back story” that we don’t know about and perhaps there are someone(s) have it in for some persons or groups.
The points about consequences of this rule will complicate emergency medical treatment of horses at show grounds.
Why wouldn’t the responsibility fall on the competitor in this case? Suspend them. Ban them for life. Why sanction the vet?
Terrible rule…why is this being proposed? No one seems to have the real answer.
3 Likes
Yes, the onus should definitely be on the competitor, or whoever purchases the illegal (for showing) substance.
5 Likes
Bears repeating. And not saying I agree. USEF wants to be able to control who is on showgrounds. If vets and farriers are members they will need background checks and safe sport training. If they should do something sanctionable, they can be banned from show grounds. This is less relevant to small shows and more relevant to multi-week series at mega shows.
2 Likes
