Use of Abler/generic omeprazole on confirmed ulcers

[wildlifer]

[QUOTE=awaywego;8202295]
So is it just that those who pay the $$ to scope also cough up the $$ for gastroguard? [/QUOTE]

Sorry for late reply, two weeks of working in 107 degrees in the bow of a electrofishing boat = mega heat exhaustion.

No, I do not scope. In both cases where I treated for ulcers, my vet (epic science love!) & I both had plenty of very clear signs of ulcers. Also, another reason I love him is that he is very very practical, just like me, & it’s pretty easy to keep up with research with NCSU ~30 mins away. Scoping won’t pick up hindgut ulcers anyway & given the clarity of presentation, we would know within 2-3 days of beginning treatment (& we did…in 1.5 days!).

That was 2 tubes of Ulcerguard, ~$44, which I’d have bought regardless. I mentioned on another thread, but it is often not neccessary to do the full month of tubes (Merial still wants profit margins, what private sector company doesn’t?). We were prescribed one week of tube/day, then 1/4 tube per day for ~2 wk after that, then switched to Ranitidine, which is much cheaper & also very effective.

For a horse trial, I’d start giving 1/4 tube of Ulcerguard 2 days before the competition, so a tube for the weekend (Thu-Fri-Sat-Sun) to deal with extra stress. Otherwise, that horse just remained on Ranitidine for the rest of his competitive career (his ulcers were a result of a boarding farm’s poor pasture management & insane parasite problems despite my careful deworming, argh).

[Fharoah]

I did not scope as I hesitated to withhold food for 18 hours prior to the scope. I instead put my horse on gastrogard for three months straight a full dose for a month, 1/2 for a month and 1/4 dose for an additional month. I really kicked myself for not scoping though as I spent a fortune on gastrogard and we were never sure if he had ulcers in the first place. I went with gastrogard as I just did not know if I could trust the alternative more affordable options.

[Dinerlee]

Antibiotics and ulcers

[QUOTE=awaywego;8202290]
This is basically where I am - since the ulcers are most definitely there, I don’t want to waste my $ on stuff that no one is sure if it really works! But my 2nd horse has killed my bank account with bouts of EPM and Lyme, so I would like to know if there is sufficient evidence that anything other than the $$$ Gastroguard works I am just not seeing any - but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t!

Mostly I’m skeptical of how we treat horses altogether for ulcers. I really do not understand why we don’t treat with the quad therapy that humans get. I’ve been thinking about this a lot because this horse is retired - theoretically a low stress lifestyle - and yet persists in having ulcers. If you apply current wisdom that stress is the main culprit behind horse ulcers, it just does not add up for me.[/QUOTE]

My horse was scoped, had ulcers, and was cured using UlcerGard together with antibiotics. The vet explained that ulcers are caused by poor dietary management. The horse needs a bed of forage in the bottom of his stomach pretty much 24/7. This prevents the horse’s constantly produced acid from sloshing up to the less well lined top of the stomach where it typcially causes ulcers. Stress contributes if it causes the horse not to eat his hay. The vet felt that antiobiotics were a gold standard part of the treatment.

[JB]

[QUOTE=Dinerlee;8919721]
The vet explained that ulcers are caused by poor dietary management. T[/QUOTE]

Ulcers are not necessarily caused by poor dietary management, as attest to by many horses getting them when fed free choice forage, even free choice pasture, don’t get high grain/sugar meals, etc. Stress alone can cause them. So can the use of NSAIDs.

Antibiotics would only be useful for hind gut issues which may actually be colitis. Stomach ulcers in horses are not caused by bacteria like they usually are in people. Was it metronidazole by chance?

[eclipse]

[QUOTE=JB;8920112]
Ulcers are not necessarily caused by poor dietary management, as attest to by many horses getting them when fed free choice forage, even free choice pasture, don’t get high grain/sugar meals, etc. Stress alone can cause them. So can the use of NSAIDs.

Antibiotics would only be useful for hind gut issues which may actually be colitis. Stomach ulcers in horses are not caused by bacteria like they usually are in people. Was it metronidazole by chance?[/QUOTE]

Sort of Agree… my horse had a great diet with acess to fabulous free choice unlimited hay , which he wouldn’t eat due to ulcers around his pyloric sphincter. Gastroguard cleared his regular ulcers but not the pyloric ulcers! He did have treatment for hind gut ulcers (just in case) which made him worse so those were stopped and hind gut ulcers ruled out and his turnaround came after months of GG and Bethanochol chloride (which forced the stomach to empty). They are also using him in a study looking at bacteria!

Once he was at a weight that could tollerate any potential diarrhoea side effects from the heavy duty sulfa drugs (last ditch treatment) he was put on GG and then twice a day antibiotics for 3 months. Scope showed amazing pyloric ulcer drying so we continued the sulfa drugs for another 2 months tapering down the GG and stopping the Bethanchol… pyloric ulcers were 90% gone at last scope and he looks amazing and will go back in the new year for a follow up and to see how he’s handl d the show season.

Hes now still on low dose liquid Omeprazole which we will hopefully be able to wean him off and for shows he goes on GG… it will be a life
long battle and I have no doubt that without scoping I wouldn’t have my amazing horse today as I would have lost him to colic!

[eclipse]

[QUOTE=awaywego;8202654]
Well I don’t really see giving antibiotics as dangerous, no. Horses are given antibiotics for all kinds of things - I don’t see why this would be any different.

I do find that interesting though that it does sound as if someone had treatment success confirmed by scoping with Abgard.

Well I will definitely have mine re-scoped in September, so i will report back on whatever I end up doing, if it works or not. More anecdotal data! :lol:[/QUOTE]

see my post above! The internal specialist my horse was seeing was VERY nervous about treating my horse with antibiotics until he was at a weight that could tolerate any potential bad side effects! Giving medication “just to try” can be life threatening and while it worked for mine, please remember it was a last ditch effort to save his life and is not something that is normally recommended nor needed for “normal” ulcers!

[JB]

Now that I’m re-reading a bit of this thread I realize it’s fairly old, but oh well, still good stuff

@awaywego;8202290

Mostly I’m skeptical of how we treat horses altogether for ulcers. I really do not understand why we don’t treat with the quad therapy that humans get.

Because ulcers in people are often from bacteria - h.Pylorii (sp). It’s not the case with horses. So for people with the bacterial ulcers, you use antibiotics. It’s not valid to automatically extrapolate causes, let alone treatments, from people to horses

@eclipse;8920265

see my post above! The internal specialist my horse was seeing was VERY nervous about treating my horse with antibiotics until he was at a weight that could tolerate any potential bad side effects! Giving medication “just to try” can be life threatening and while it worked for mine, please remember it was a last ditch effort to save his life and is not something that is normally recommended nor needed for “normal” ulcers!

Agree!

You don’t just start giving abx “just because” or “it’s the first thing we should try”. They are not benign, they can have very serious consequences, and without due-diligence, you can make things worse.

Yes, horses are given abx for all kinds of things…on purpose, after careful consideration, determining it is the best course, and deciding on the proper abx given the situation

Thinking that antibiotics aren’t dangerous is part of why we have resistance problems, it’s why penicillin should not, IMHO, be available OTC at Tractor Supply (and more), and why most owners have no business with a bottle of SMZs in their tack room

[beaulilly]

That’s interesting about the abx. Did ulcer treatment on my mare first with brand name ulcergard and then follow-up with generic omeprazole for a few months. She had a vast turnaround from a fence eating nervous wreck to very relaxed and chill (for her). Anyway, she ended up with a nasty hoof abscess over a month of soaking/packing/draining. She was put on sulfa tabs for a month. She never in her almost 4 years with me looked so good. No other changes but the sulfa. She had a bloom on her, was super happy. Once off it she is back to looking fine and acting fine, but that OMG she looks glorious is gone.

[KrazyTBMare]

Late to this post as well but I don’t frequent the boards much anymore. I did not scope my mare but there was no doubt she had ulcers. Would not keep weight, extremely grouchy, did not want to be groomed or petted, she would pace the fence for hours, weaving at the end of each pace along the fence, did not care for her grain and never cleaned it up, preferred hay first before grain, but wouldn’t always eat hay even though it was out 24/7, she would literally start to run backwards after my gelding trying to double barrel kick him with ears pinned and teeth barred when months before they were grooming each other, and she always has been a worrier, mouth constantly moving and she puts her head down and then kind of twists it and looks like she’s chewing on something. I would go out to the barn and see her in distress and I would literally just cry, sob, and felt lost bc I could not afford UG or GG. And I did not want to put her through the prep of scoping when she was clearly very uncomfortable already. Then I read on here about the pop rocks and after weighing my options, decided to try them. Now bc she wouldn’t eat her feed, I was mixing them in applesauce and syringing them in at first. After around 3 or 4 days, she wasn’t trying to go after my gelding, day 7 she started look forward to her grain and she had stopped pacing the fence, day 10 she lost the grumpy attitude and was acting like my old horse again. I did 3 packets a day for 30 days, then tapered to 2 packets a day for 2 or 3 weeks, then finished out the second box with 1 packet a day. Half way through the treatment, I was able to put the pop rocks in her feed bc she was actually eating it. That was 3 years ago. She has now gained over 150# (confirmed with digital scale - she was 1009 and is now 1160), she is no longer a hard keeper and I have actually backed down her grain, she is always grooming my gelding and they live peacefully together, she doesn’t pace or weave anymore, and she loves being groomed now. She is particular in her daily management and the smallesst things can set her off such as me closing the gate to behind the barn so she can’t go stand by the back fence and stare at the neighbors horses after 330pm. Or if I leave them in their stalls for more then 4 hours after dinner even though she has tons of hay. She’s 21 and it’s just how it is. But I have her at home so I can manage her how she prefers and keep everything in balance. Did I scope? Nope. Did they work? Absolutely. Fwiw, I did randitine but the fact that I had to dose 2 to 3 times a day was a draw back for my personal situation as my job had me leaving at 5am and not home until 6pm so my dad fed them in the am for me around 7am and he wasn’t one to syringe her meds and she wasn’t reliable with eating to know she would get them. When I did evening and then like 10pm dosing it did help some but not to the effectiveness of the pop rocks. I also keep generic omeprazole paste for flare ups, ya know if the gate gets closed and I forget to open it in time etc as I can tell she’s starting to get a little bothered just by the change in her attitude but 1 or 2 doses of the paste and she’s back to normal. She is def a special case in management of her home so I am careful with her routine as she’s not going to change at 21.

[newhorsemommy]

[QUOTE=Simkie;8201807]
I have a vet who’s done pre and post scoping studies using the omeprazole paste from precision pharmacy and found it equal in efficacy to the merial products.[/QUOTE]

My vet also says he has scoped before and after using compounded omeprazole and found it effective. He uses a powdered version.

[Markcycling]

Is anyone using Roundup ready alfalfa? Thoughts?

[SonnysMom]

@Markcycling

Is anyone using Roundup ready alfalfa? Thoughts?

This is an old thread. You might want to start you own. Can you expand on your question? Since this is on a thread about ulcer treatment are you asking if people use Round up ready alfalfa to treat ulcers or in general does anybody use Roundup ready alfalfa?

[cnd8]

I have used the Abler paste to treat confirmed ulcers on two different horses at two different times. Both recovered. I love the stuff.