Use of "gee" and "haw"

[QUOTE=SmokenMirrors;5161044]
What did I mean? Go back and read whenever one of us comments or posts about our drafts. I say team, as that is what I have and drive, I am corrected and told no, you have a pair. [/QUOTE]

That’s a semantics question, it has nothing to do with what breed you drive. And if it makes you feel any better, I catch myself using “team” to describe a pair all the time.

Perhaps someone was speaking of the origin of the breed? They certainly were not developed to be fine harness horses.

[QUOTE=SmokenMirrors;5161044] almost like the mere saying draft or the breed one would wrinkle up their nose as if a bad taste in their mouth.

So Rudy is not the only one who doesn’t feel too welcome when they do speak about their drafts. And I have already done several events too but chose not to share them on here for the same reason he mentioned. Why speak about something that we may love and enjoy, and are often times good at it, only to have someone sneer, look down their nose, make snide or condescending comments about it?[/QUOTE]

I think your paranoia is showing. There is a regular and long-time poster here that drives drafts. She’s never mentioned any kind of “bias” regarding her horses.

I think you got zinged by one particular poster once or twice and have decided there is a forum-wide vendetta against draft horses and their owners.

[QUOTE=Trakehner;5160513]
Sigh, more pontificating and misinformation. One person’s bias and “but my uncle and father said it so it must be so”

Here’s an interesting etymological answer to a question .[/QUOTE] Not sure where you got the idea that there was “misinformation”.

We’d actually not discussed the etymology of gee and haw.

However your description is pretty much commonly accepted as being the origins.

It’s very well written up and even easily and readily found just via a quick google.

http://www.takeourword.com/TOW144/page2.html

[QUOTE=Rudy;5161004]
I rarely post about my draft on here mainly because I am 1) still learning and don’t feel like being roasted and 2) I have never got the warm fuzzy feeling on here about drafts. Maybe I am wrong but it is how it has always come across to me. :([/QUOTE] Really? Heck I’ve been involved with heavy horses all my life and I don’t care who knows about it. I’ve posted photos putting Suffolk Punch, Shires, Cleveland Bays to harness and I’ve proudly showed photos of the Percheron stallion I used to own. I can’t begin to understand why you should feel insecure or ashamed and need to look for reassurance

After all it’s not like coming out and admitting you’re a addicted to heroin or crack!!

Back to the original topic

The ADS rulebook does not have anything in it to specifiy what verbal commands are acceptable

IN THE PLEASURE SHOWRING you do see some people give verbal commands to their horse, sometimes.
But it is discrete and quiet
It is frowned upon to be loud and audible to the judge all around the ring

Depending on how skilled the class is, less and less commands are heard

A horse can hear truly a whisper from behind him, so you dont need a lot

In CDE dressage, you sometimes hear verbal commands in the lower levels
But I dont think of hearing very much in the upper levels - singles in particular. Pairs and 4s you sometimes hear the drivers speak the horses name to emphasize a rein command

In the Hazards its another story and to some degree its a crutch for the dirver when they start hooting and hollering and shouting LEFT LEFT LEFT etc. The louder and more constant the verbal commands (IMO) the more the horse learns to ignore them

We had one driver in our area who ised a whistle sound to alert his horses of a change of direction. Saw a couple of drivers in the WEG did the same

Whatever you choose to use, be thoughtful in its use

1 Like

I love Gee and Haw. Short, one syllable words that roll off the tongue. Yes, I was taught by a hitch guy, a number of Amish friends and by a farmer and yes, I use Percherons. But I have also cliniced with a number of pleasure/dressage drivers and they had no problems with the usage of gee and haw (in fact, at least one of them used them). I learned so long ago, I really don’t think about it.

Gee and haw are pretty standard in the working classes of driving in the USA (but don’t ask me what Chester Weber uses, because I really don’t have a clue -he is way above my pay grade!).

But, if the horse was trained by Amish, no matter what the breed, it probably knows gee and haw. But, if your horse has an oral command, and you only have one horse -go with whatever word it knows. If. like me, you have a barn of horses, train the horse to the word of your choice -having all your horses knowing the same oral commands is pretty important!

It doesn’t really matter though what word -as long as it is short. Use a word that works for you. That is the important part. Horses are smart, they can relearn oral commands pretty quick.

But shucks, I used to do stock dog trials and gave up on the “traditional words” for working livestock and dogs too. Way to complex between the horses and the dogs. Between the driving, and the herding/working dogs -what would come out of my mouth was like a weird stew of mixed words - it would sound something like" “Luna (the dog), gee -no -wrong word, right -no wrong word, away to me -whew, got it”). I ended up with both of us going in circles and the livestock (as well as my trainer) yucking it up in the arena. So, I just use gee and haw with my dogs too! Works for me -I must be too simple or dyslexic to have too many words meaning the same thing!

^ I’ve a similar experience to Cielo. We also have gundogs. They’re my wife’s thing really as far as competition etc is concerned but obviously I take them for walks and also go shooting with them to pick up for me.

Once I went into a dressage arena with a novice horse and when I ended the test and preparing to salaute the judge and I said “Sit” to my horse! :sadsmile::rolleyes:

Fortunately the horse was better than I was and he knew what I meant.

I have actually done clinics and specifically talked about use and tone of voice and used absolutely silly words but said in the right tone to command a horse to do something.

I also can’t cope though if I’ve different commands on the go at once. When I’ve had horses in that have been trained to different commands or such as when I’ve done a heavy horse for someone who is specifically wanting something else then it gets me totally confused and I’ve even gone to getting my Right and Left muddled up when I’ve gone back to my “normal”.

I’ve a friend/customer who the whole way round the marathon course just shouts her horses name… repeatedly… no instruction! Just the name.

Those who have watched fei elsewhere or in the UK will know who I mean. :wink:

End of the day though if what you use is effective then what the heck. Unless you’re wanting to do something very purist or are teaching driving. I’ve friends doing agricultural harness and ploughing classes that would never use anything other than Gee and Har or Come and Get. What I personally wouldn’t want to do though is have different commands for different horses… impossible!

Red Squirrel Ridge–I love my Percherons!! But I also love my Morgan cross and my walkers!! I just drive for my own pleasure, and am not interested in any kind of competition at all, so I’m not concerned about “proper” voice commands, or “accepted” commands for use in the show ring.

When I drive two horses, I say I drive a team because that is what most of the people I know say. I’m not going to go around saying “pair” and be teased for sounding “stuck up.”

But mainly, I do drive a single horse. I use “Gee” and “Haw” “Whoa” “Step up” “Easy” and “Walk on” – a walking horse term used to tell a horse to do a running walk. But sometimes I slip up and use another walking horse term “Hup”- which also means the same as “Walk on.”

My walkers all know these terms-- and the Percherons and Morgan cross were quick to pick up on these as well. But when downtown, I use whistles to get my horse’s attention and tell it what to do - except for “Whoa.”

But really, I think horses are much smarter than people want to give them credit for being. All of my horses recognize what a stop sign is–I swear they do. All of them will start slowing down and come to a stop at a corner with a sign almost before I can give them any verbal command.

My mother-in-law used to talk about her grandfather who was doctor and pharmacist in a small south Louisiana town at the turn of the 20th century. She used to ride with him to the pharmacy where his office also was before she was old enough for school. At noon, they would go home for lunch. She said that often on the way back to the office after lunch her grandfather would doze off in his buggy. The horse would just continue on its way until it got to its hitching post by the back door. Then it would stop-- rather suddenly-- almost like it was trying to make sure the old doctor would be jolted awake.

Of course, back then, there was only one “horseless carriage” in the whole town-- and by law horses had the right of way so I guess the doctor’s naps were not too dangerous. But still, the horse knew the way by itself, and it dutifully carried its dozing owner and his young granddaughter to the office without any problems day after day – even it the doctor dozed off.

Because her grandfather spoke French, his horse knew French commands instead of English. So I guess he used a gauche for “haw” and droit for “Gee” and arrete (Sp?) for “whoa”.

She also told a story about her grandfather being called out on a dark rainy night to deliver a baby - seems they are always being born on dark rainy nights. Anyway, even with lamps, it was very dark and hard to see. The doctor headed out to cross the newly built bridge over the bayou, but his horse kept refusing to go across it-- disobedience was something that was very unusual. Finally he gave up and went around a longer way to where there was a low water bridge, and though the water was pretty high, he managed to get across and arrived to help deliver twins!

He was there most of the night, and into early the next day before he headed home. He went to go the shortest way using the new bridge (this was a bridge made of wood) But when he got there he saw that in the night a large tree had rammed into it and had caused a section on the end that would have been the far end that night to fall into the bayou.

By refusing to cross, the horse had kept itself, the good doctor and his buggy from falling in the rain swollen bayou. Though the bridge had looked just fine on the near end, the far end was gone-- and the bridge was not wide enough to turn a horse and buggy around on.

I think that these stories and others show that horses are smart enough to adapt to which ever voice commands you wish to use. I also think that the more you and your horse work together, the better your horse gets at “reading your mind” and it will attune itself to your voice and take cues from your tone instead of just the words you say or the notes you whistle.

I think it is most important for you to use words you feel comfortable using, and for you to enjoy what you are doing with your horse.

1 Like

I have been using gee and haw with my donkey, and she knows them fairly well. Gee and haw are also often used when working sled dogs. I asked my original question because I am so new to the driving scene that I haven’t gotten a chance to see what the norm is, especially in fine driving. It occurred to me that using gee and haw could be considered a stereotypical greenhorn thing like waving your hat in the air and yelling “GIDDYUP” ! So I thought I’d ask…:winkgrin:

[QUOTE=Drive NJ;5161514]

In CDE dressage, you sometimes hear verbal commands in the lower levels
But I dont think of hearing very much in the upper levels - singles in particular.[/QUOTE]
Because, in dressage, the horse should be listening to your rein aids, which can be much more refined & immediate than a voice aid for turning :slight_smile:

You: “Gee!”
Horse: “Roger that. Turn right. Now? At the corner? How sharp a turn?”

[QUOTE=red squirrel ridge;5164472]
It occurred to me that using gee and haw could be considered a stereotypical greenhorn thing like waving your hat in the air and yelling “GIDDYUP” !:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Or slapping the reins on the horses rump. :winkgrin:

Well Hello . . .
even the beat drivers revert to a bit of rein slapping in moments of excitement . . .
In the videos of the WEG marathon even Chardon, who won the marathon, reverted to rein slapping the 4inhand team coming out of at least one hazard
It just happens - when you get excited

I’ll have to see if I can find it again, but there was a video that went around a good 10 years ago of draft horse racing in Japan
They pull heavy sledges at a WALK and the drivers carry on in the back like they are doing Hibachi cooking - lots of flashy action but it doesnt really affect the horses in front

Drive NJ
I just googled Japanese draft horse racing and came up with some videos on you tube- its called Banei horse racing… different

Well, I took one of my common course drafts to an ADS Pleadure show this weekend and managed to not say gee or haw even once. We won division championship but decided not to stay for the overall champion class as it was pouring rain. I braided him (got up at 4 am each day) and the judge adored him. Said he was always in the right frame and had a perfect headset. Fortunately she did not ask if he knew gee and haw. because of this thread, I was very conscious of what voice commands I used (not that I would change anything, just wanted to keep track) and the only things I said were “trot” and “easy” and “easy back.” Did not have to say anything at all for him to go to walk or stop. Good thing, I guess, since I always say “ho” instead of “whoa” and who knows what people would have thought! Or should the command be “stop”?

[QUOTE=JoanR;5158751]
I use Gee and haw with my Clydesdales, even in the show ring, if it is appropriate… It works for me, my guys know what I am asking for and comply. [/QUOTE]

Well, I took one of my common course drafts to an ADS Pleadure show this weekend and managed to not say gee or haw even once. We won division championship but decided not to stay for the overall champion class as it was pouring rain. I braided him (got up at 4 am each day) and the judge adored him. Said he was always in the right frame and had a perfect headset. Fortunately she did not ask if he knew gee and haw.

Odd to change what you were already doing when it was successful and for such an important event.

Trakehner - Terrific post! Thanks so much! I love reading research into the origins of certain words. It isn’t surprising that most of our odd words “morphed” from something more identifiable to “regular words” used in long ago language - be it Native American, or old European, or Far East.

I thought the “gee” and “haw” were more French in origin - being specifically used by the early French mushers as the norm for controlling the direction of their sled dogs. Considering that French (and Latin) were the language of the learned in the middle centuries (old English or Middle English being very coarse (ie: “common”) at the time and not inclined to be that much a part of the popular lexicon) I would think - this just being my VHO – these two words probably have morphed from another language other than English…especially in light that the French would rather be garroted and hung from a tree upside down than utter a phrase with English origins. :lol: Even that one reference you mentioned suggests a non-English origin.

To the OP - you can say “gee” and “haw” and anything you want to cue your driving horses during a show - and that includes Devon and Walnut Hill, and Madison Square Gardens. Any code words, historic or otherwise. Heck, you could invent your own and be the envy of all the other drivers there! As has been already stated, there is no rule against it, and it is not looked down upon. If it helps you better communicate with your horse or pony, then go for it. Just don’t shout it or say it out loud so that someone nearby can also hear it. It needs to be said in a low voice or whisper so that only your horses can hear it. Not anyone else.

I use the words “come about” to my ponies when I want them to make a tight 90 degree, or full 180 degree, turn in either direction with very light pressure on the leading rein. They know the word means to turn tightly, but the rein is what directs them which way to turn. They are so used to this cue that I can release rein pressure altogether while they execute the turn on just the words alone. When they have turned as much as I want, light rein pressure on the opposing rein, and the words “good ponies” is all they need to know they have executed the turn to my satisfaction, and they stop turning.

I, myself, tend to be <ahem> “directionally challenged” and would only confuse myself if I had to try and remember which directions gee and haw represent! “Come about” -with the rein to show the way- is so much easier…for all of us! :lol::lol:

I also say “ho” in a gentle drawn-out way. Loooooove that word. So nice and gentle. I usually throw in the word “and” in front of it, and stretch both words out. The sound relaxes the body of both human and horse when it is said. :slight_smile: Ahhh. I can feel the relaxation just thinking about it. Mmmmmmm.

I don’t use “whoa” except as slang for one of those “holy cow!” moments. Then it must be said quickly, with an upward inflection of tone - with the emphasis on the “oh!” Just like Keanu Reeves says it in “The Matrix” That way. :lol: I never use it to stop to a horse.

“Stop” sounds - abrupt, annoying, nasty. I only use that word when I’m mad and demanding an immediate cessation to whatever annoying activity is happening around me. I don’t use it at all in driving. “And ho” said quickly while driving is more effective for stopping fast, and far more soothing.

Again, just MVHO.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

I saw that!!! I almost fell off my chair! It was like “WHOA! Did he just job those reins on those wheelers butts?? Yeehaw!!” Guess when they changed the whip rule (to not having to carry it during marathon) they didn’t think one might need something “else” to further encourage forward movement other than the voice. A la ‘whack on the butt with the reins’ - and he did it more than once. I think he did it about 3-4 times! Sure was an eye-opener for me! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[QUOTE=gothedistance;5166483]
A la ‘whack on the butt with the reins’ - and he did it more than once. I think he did it about 3-4 times! Sure was an eye-opener for me! :lol::lol::lol::lol:[/QUOTE]

It’s reality vs. hoity-toity attitude. People will blather on about Achenbach being THE ONLY correct way to handle the reins…and “never whack your horse’s butt with the reins”…but everyone does it in reality (kinda’ like farting–you can only blame the dog so often).

Forgive the intrusion. I haven’t driven since I was a kid, but I am a nut about words, riding words, especially, so I opened this thread and read this:

She also told a story about her grandfather being called out on a dark rainy night to deliver a baby - seems they are always being born on dark rainy nights. Anyway, even with lamps, it was very dark and hard to see. The doctor headed out to cross the newly built bridge over the bayou, but his horse kept refusing to go across it-- disobedience was something that was very unusual. Finally he gave up and went around a longer way to where there was a low water bridge, and though the water was pretty high, he managed to get across and arrived to help deliver twins!

He was there most of the night, and into early the next day before he headed home. He went to go the shortest way using the new bridge (this was a bridge made of wood) But when he got there he saw that in the night a large tree had rammed into it and had caused a section on the end that would have been the far end that night to fall into the bayou.

By refusing to cross, the horse had kept itself, the good doctor and his buggy from falling in the rain swollen bayou. Though the bridge had looked just fine on the near end, the far end was gone-- and the bridge was not wide enough to turn a horse and buggy around on.

Anna Sewell LIVES!

[QUOTE=HiyoSilver;5166621]
Forgive the intrusion. I haven’t driven since I was a kid, but I am a nut about words, riding words, especially, so I opened this thread and read this:

Anna Sewell LIVES![/QUOTE]

My thought too :wink: