Nice pictures, netg, thanks for sharing! You raise an interesting question. OP, a more basic answer to your question would be that the neck is not what you need to be focused on. Getting control of the horse’s hindquarters - his engine - is the goal. What may or may not happen in front of the saddle is usually only a symptom of what is NOT happening behind. So freedom in the horse’s neck or lack thereof is an indication of whether or not he’s through. Does that make sense to you?
2 Likes
Great post and I think exactly what I wrote in my post as well 
1 Like
I found the KM article incredibly valuable and thought provoking. Must read it many times and ponder, I think it will help me greatly.
Who was it that wrote about the “falling down neck”?
I’ve done a couple of clinics with “cowboys” and the first thing they say to ALL the dressage people is “get out of your horse’s mouth.” Given my general struggle with contact, I’m leaning toward just keeping things this way. I’m riding one-handed in a hackamore right now due to having limited use of my right hand, and whoa I am learning a LOT about leaving the head and neck alone!
Here’s a good biomechanics article - although it does not teach how to achieve this. It takes very good feel from the rider to develop this ability to correctly collect, and enhance the gaits.
Wicky - I am glad you found the Mikolka article interesting. It’s been valuable for me and I reread it every few years. Here’s hoping other folks take a look at it too. (Link in post #5).
but… that is not dressage! you have to have contact at some point-- though yeah, for a test or exercise I get what you are saying!
“use of the neck” to me is a hard concept to talk about on here— very abstract.
I want to create stability in the system so the sternum lifts, the neck being straight helps with that. Like Mondo, I work with biomechanics type training and we talk more about the withers/sternum than the neck per say.
“RIDE THE NECK LONG” is an older Anne Gribbons article that totally changed my riding when I saw it. I like to think of riding the absolute longest possible neck I can ON CONTACT. I wish I could get a reprint- was not successful at finding this old article. IT talked about how this preserves the vertebrae-- very ahead of the time if you ask me.
Someone shoulda talked to Podhajsky to tell him he was doing it all wrong. 
2 Likes
This was great, and I love the explanation about the use of the inside rein.
Thank you both!
That’s silly. It’s a moment in time. Podhajsky trained horse into contact. Piaffe is a mouvement that require great self carriage and therefore, reins can be released at times. Another picture of Podhajsky in passage.
[IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“full”,“src”:"http://images.gr-assets.com/authors/1222179798p5/382121.jpg)
2 Likes
excuse me? this is a finished horse, in a double. Not relevant here at all, the discussion is about a cowboy with no bit and LONG REINS. that is not how the SRS trains, they start in side reins and bits, the way I do.
1 Like
I am extremely impressed!! I had no clue that the OP is a cowboy with no bit and long reins… Kudos to you for finding out. But I know you are good !!!
you missed something, obviously. Read Quintann’s posts again. you are hounding me on every thread today, it’s tiresome.
Do you have anything constructive to add to this discussion?
Back to the topic,
Can we discuss the need for positive tension in the neck? how does one know if we have positive tension? how does the shape change- ie what anatomic features change?
what does a “good neck” feel like as a rider? does this change with progression in training?
I will add my comments later.
1 Like
I detest the phrase “positive tension” and think it was popularized by people looking to justify just flat out tension.
If you look at the two pics I posted, the canter pic has good neck (I have a trot pic with similar neck, but not permission to post that pic here), and the trot pic I posted doesn’t. Good neck pic has an alive, responsive but soft contact. Bad neck is a solid, bracing contact. My fault, but that’s the feel from it. The good neck pic you see the muscles in front of her withers in use, and looking down at her that would be the widest part of her neck. The bad neck pic, the widest part of her neck is mid-neck, and you see a hollow in front of the withers (or as much as she gets). You also see poll definitely not the highest point, throatlatch closed, behind the vertical… and you see the reason for those guidelines on head position, as her withers are below her hips, instead of uphill carriage.
1 Like
I need to get some sort of word to describe strength in the neck, in a good way. It’s sort of like the bit to me- I have to feel something working with me in the neck, shaped/managed and balanced.
My biggest lesson- an over-suppled horse can not collect, the sternum is not stabalized. There is no place to draw up from when they lower the hind end. Too much noodling around in the ribs, neck, withers is why I think many people hit the wall. The front legs need to slow in steps, the horse can’t be too forward.
The inside leg to outside rein is one aspect of this, of course, but the withers need to also not “tip” the wrong way.
The rider’s seat and thighs shape the neck both laterally and longitudinally.
SendenHorse, it’s a side issue, but I am not really “doing dressage” anymore. I use what I’ve learned (and continue to learn) for general pleasure riding, trail riding, obstacles etc. I’m lucky enough to have a well-trained, versatile Morgan At this point, I can’t ride with dressage-level contact anyway, as I am recovering from surgery and do not have much strength or grip in my right hand, and it’s not 100% certain I will ever recover it.
Carry on, everyone!
Do you have a bad day?? Maybe read the thread from the beginning… I did contribute something constructive…
since the ignore function isn’t working, consider yourself back on that list.
I’m not the only one here with this same thought, I will leave it at that.
hey, no problem! I’m sorry to hear about your surgery…I’m a fan of many NH ideas, to be sure…there is a time for loose reins.
One of my bad habits is/was over-giving when things get tough, so I have to be careful I don’t use it as a bandaid.
Interesting that one of my horses exhibited the same mouth tension in a bitless bridle…
