I agree it shouldn’t. But they are saying it will.
Who is they? Last years proposal/rule change was that bloggers/influencers cannot receive products to promote and that would break ammy status because it’s compensation.
They is whomever is suggesting it. But I’m out. Doesn’t affect me.
As long as the webinar will only make it harder for AAs to „cheat“, nothing will really change….,
no these shamatures were then showing their bosses horses ( often more than one horse) in adult ammy classes against true ammys. This scheme was common particularly amongst hunter barns and winkingly chuckled over. One former AHSA Pres and judge acknowledged that they complicit in this scheme. They didn’t seem to feel any remorse that the sham was out-showing the other clients.
this was back in the day when many adult women at this level were not working. But one ride a day with 2xweek over fences is not the same with the rider who is jumping every day, often several horses.
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I would much prefer that idea about either hasn’t shown two levels higher, or some other version of a novice type rule instead of pro/amateur based on money. It means at times if I go to CA for shows I could be in classes with Steffen Peters. But I stand by my belief dressage more than anything needs to become more welcoming for riders - and I’ve been around enough to take the lumps of not placing against international riders if something becomes an experience ranking instead of based on income sources. To me, it’s worth it if we can make the sport more inviting for newcomers.
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There are a number of way to do this for specific disciplines, but it is difficult to do it in a way that addresses ALL disciplines, and the Amateur rule is written for ALL disciplines.
For Eventing you can use the existing “Rider” rule, which means you have not completed an event above the next highest level in the 5 years preceding the date of the competition (EV APPENDIX 3 1.5)
For Dressage (since it has levels) you can use the same definition.
For Hunters and Jumpers you can say “have not competed at a level 6” higher"
But I am not sure how you could specify it for, for instance, Western, or the breed specific divisions. And I understand that the Arab division is one where they think the Pro vs Amateur distinction is particularly important.
An additional issue is that someone who currently considers him/herself a “legitimate amateur” does not want to be “ruled out” of the division, and this would definitely affect some that way.
Any change to the general Amateur rule (GR1306) needs to work for ALL divisions and disciplines.
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I signed up for the webinar. When you sign up, there is a question box where you can ask questions and such. I requested a copy of the proposed rules. With the proposals, we are just shooting in the dark as to what they are trying to accomplish.
I do find it interesting that they are trying to look at an amateur in a new way.
Just spit-balling here… why couldn’t they let the individual governing bodies for the disciplines decide their own amateur rules? Then, when you registers for your USEF membership, you specify what other organizations you have membership in, and your amateur/open status could carry over in those disciplines?
For example, from your examples: let’s pretend I’m a hypothetical Arab trainer. I have a lot of experience in the English pleasure and hack divisions. I decide I want to do dressage. I’ve never shown in a USDF rated dressage show. Under a rider level system, I would qualify for the lowest level, and wouldn’t have to compete against the local team rider bringing their $$$ prospect out at training level.
However, I am a pro under the Arab Breed Org distinctions, which designates a pro as someone paid to train horses, and it’s VERY IMPORTANT not to mix it up with amateurs. So I can show based upon my rider level designation for USDF shows, and in the pro division in breed shows based upon my Arab professional designation. Just an idea…
As far as people wanting ribbons from horseshows (because this is what the amateur rule has roots in: the rich ladies who lunch didn’t want to lose to their trainers), USDF could always implement the Danish system.
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This has come up in previous discussions when someone said that amateurs are not allowed to lunge a horse other than their own. Which seemed nonsensical to the hunter and jumper people, who are often just lunging a horse in a halter to get it relaxed or loosened up. But since the amateur rule applies across divisions, it also has to cover the horses who are being lunged with tack as part of their training routine.
I think that one would also need a timeframe attached, since somebody who showed over bigger jumps 20 years ago should not necessarily be restricted now.
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Coming at this as a current HJ rider, though I have also shown dressage and eventing.
The amateur rule says nothing about ability, only about compensation. I have no issue with that.
You can do pretty much anything and remain an amateur, as long as you’re not compensated directly or indirectly. Lunge, ride, teach, groom… But you can’t get compensated by someone for anything (child care, web design, bookkeeping) if you also ride or do other amateur-forbidden activities for that person: this is what @MHM was talking about, though I suspect there was >1 bookkeeper situation. So getting paid for doing my trainer’s website would push me out of amateur status if I also ride a client’s horse or even one of her horses (even a lesson horse). But I can get paid for designing another trainer’s website.
I was extremely annoyed when my former trainer’s barn manager rode horses and still rode as an amateur, including riding against clients. When I brought it up, I was asked for suggestions for circumventing the rule. No joke.
I have zero issue with people working as judges, stewards, vets, etc. and being amateurs. Likewise I have no issue with social media influencers being amateurs, even if they get swag. How is this different from an amateur who is paid to be a judge or to write articles?
If you have questions just email amateurinquiry at USEF org.
USEF amateur rule is 1306 in the following document: https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/nT3TlM3v0NA/gr13-competition-participants-and which I hight recommend reading if you’re unfamiliar with it.
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Aside from cross-entry rules for kids and amateurs, I’ve also seen restrictions on past activity (stirrup classes, some medals) for county and state organizations, sometimes with a time frame.
exactly
Both of these complaints could be addressed by disregarding the Amateur/Open classification in dressage, and instead adopting some variant of gold/silver/bronze classification used by British Dressage.
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IMO the same way teaching riding makes the teacher a better rider - having to think about and explain things to others.
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Lots of people who are amazing teachers are not near as amazing riders.
But, being amazing is not a requirement of being a pro, so…
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So someone who runs a blog about the best saddle pads or breeches becomes a better rider?
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IN CAPS: I AM ONLY PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE HERE AND IN FUTURE POSTS HERE.
DO NOT ASSUME YOU KNOW MY OPINION ON THE ISSUE.
Blogging about equipment? What about bits? Write an article advising what different bits are “better” for specific issues… how far is that from training a flesh and blood horse?
@trubandloki And some amazing riders are [crappy] teachers. So? do we let the great teacher/[crappy] rider compete as an AA, but restrict the great rider/[crappy] teacher?
Exactly 
