USEA records and price question

[lovemytbs]

I’m casually looking for a LL event horse, my mare doesn’t want to be an eventer! I’ve been looking in the usual spots, usea2 site, sport horse nation, dreamhorse, equine, and others, and several trainers/bigger farms, too, Phyllis Dawson, Natalie Hollis, Jane Sleeper, Stephen Bradley, Kelley Williams, Courtney Cooper, and many others. So I think my search is definitely including a wide variety of folks in the Mid-Atlantic region. One thing I always look at is the USEA record, I don’t really care about dressage scores, but I sure care about xc penalties. It kinda has shocked me that people are asking 10-20k for horses who have USEA records sprinkled with xc penalties (even at lower levels) and are advertising them as packers. I realize there are always the stops that should happen, bad spot, footing, newbie rider, shadows, etc, but to have many penalties on a record for a horse described as “an xc machine, honest jumper, packer” just blows my mind. It’s quite frustrating, too. I just had a ammy owner email me back about a horse who sounded nice, and she said he’d been out of work all winter and that’s why his price was so low (10k-not “low” in my book) and his record is like 8-10 events at BN with half of those having xc penalties, and in many cases more than 20 points.

Is it really going to take over 10k to find a horse without lots of xc penalties, especially if I don’t mind mediocre dressage scores, or an older horse/pony? I’ve been there done that with stopper, so I am especially sensitive about it.

[tuppysmom]

Look farther west.

There are many nice horses located in the Midwest and west. They are often 1/2 that price. CA prices can be high unless you look in north central CA.

Try UT, MT, OR, ID, AZ etc

Sure, it costs a bit to travel, try, and ship, but there are bargains to be had.

[lovemytbs]

Travelling that far isn’t an option for me, unfortunately. I have seen lower prices out of this area though, so I definteily agree deals can be had elsewhere.

But is it the “norm” for horses priced this way in the MD/PA/VA area with these types of questionable records? That’s my real question.

[weixiao]

I’m not all that familiar with the event horse market. The horses I’ve bought for it have been a jumper that got my into eventing when I switched him over, a free horse, and now two OTTBs.

But out of curiosity, what do you consider “questionable”? What do you consider unreasonable/reasonable number of penalties or frequency of penalties for a packer?

[lovemytbs]

[QUOTE=weixiao;7496527]

But out of curiosity, what do you consider “questionable”? What do you consider unreasonable/reasonable number of penalties or frequency of penalties for a packer?[/QUOTE]

I’d say I wouldn’t mind seeing a couple if they’ve evented quite a bit, or if they have a few at Training, and I’m only wanting to do BN, but lots of stops at the lower levels on a 10-20k horse I guess just blows my mind. I don’t see how that’s an “honest packer”. Personally the best horses I’ve had in the past have ZERO xc penalties, so I know they exist and it’s not a myth-LOL!

[ride_the_pony]

Likely so. what compromises can you make? Age, curb appeal, gender, size. An honest Ammy friendly packer is on most peoples santa list.

[lovemytbs]

Don’t want to get into too much detail as I don’t want this construed as advertising, but will look at large ponies, honies, small horses, tall horses, so lots of wiggle room there. Don’t care about age, breed, don’t expect to win or even come close to winning dressage. No gender preference, either. So in other words pretty open with a lot of specifics, just want an honest xc horse.

I realize lots of people want that, BUT, I’m still floored about the USEA record and how it correlates (or doesn’t) with price.

[gr8fulrider]

[QUOTE=lovemytbs;7496565]
I’d say I wouldn’t mind seeing a couple if they’ve evented quite a bit, or if they have a few at Training, and I’m only wanting to do BN, but lots of stops at the lower levels on a 10-20k horse I guess just blows my mind. I don’t see how that’s an “honest packer”. Personally the best horses I’ve had in the past have ZERO xc penalties, so I know they exist and it’s not a myth-LOL![/QUOTE]

At my horse’s first novice an Olympic rider went right before her and he had a stop at the 4th fence. Very fancy horse with a top rider. Having an x-c penalty doesn’t mean the horse has a questionable record. It could mean any number of things. Maybe the trainer preferred to regroup and re-present than to chase a baby horse over a fence in an awkward way when the stakes were so low and the horse was so young. Maybe the top trainer takes a slightly greener horse out at that level than an ammy like me would take.

If the trainer is honest and has a good reputation for pairing horses with happy owners, then that occasional 20 is not the biggest thing. A string of Es is another story.

[lovemytbs]

Yes, I agree Gr8ful-I’m not talking about the occasional 20 penalty, I’m talking about several, and some over 80 in one event. To me, that indicates a problem!

[secretariat]

You’re quoting some big names in your list. Those folks aren’t going to deal in a horse less than 10K no matter what the record. Most pros even without a big name won’t either, especially if you restrict your search to the stated area. For <10K in that area, you need a backyard/pure ammie horse. They’re out there, but they’ll be hard to find.

Just out of curiosity, why would you not want to save $5 - 10K and come to Kentucky?

[lovemytbs]

[QUOTE=secretariat;7496703]
You’re quoting some big names in your list. Those folks aren’t going to deal in a horse less than 10K no matter what the record. Most pros even without a big name won’t either, especially if you restrict your search to the stated area. For <10K in that area, you need a backyard/pure ammie horse. They’re out there, but they’ll be hard to find.

Just out of curiosity, why would you not want to save $5 - 10K and come to Kentucky?[/QUOTE]

Yep, I realize those are some bigger names, but those are places I’ve found horses before (although years ago) and I’m also scouring the dreamhorse and equine.com places as well. The one I was interested in was from a local ammy type who thought her 10k horse was a steal with tons of xc penalties and hasn’t been ridden since the fall! I just don’t have time to drive/fly anywhere to look at a horse, job, family, vacations days already fully planned or used up, etc. My time is valuable and pretty tight these days, so will keep looking locally. I’m in no rush, and really was more looking for opinions of what most folks feel is acceptable in terms of record vs price.

[Divine_Comedy]

Honestly? I think you probably are setting your sights a little high, if you’re trying for a BN/N packer for $10K, especially in area II.

Just producing a horse and getting it to an event generally makes it’s price an automatic $10K. Most sales barns I know buy OTTBs, and turn them around. Their initial sale price before ever going to a show is usually around $7500.

Even a horse that has quite a few stops on its record has cost a certain amount just to get there. Would I buy that horse? Probably not. But someone might.

For a confirmed BN/N packer, even a bit older with maintenance (and in some cases especially a bit older, as they are generally more ‘confirmed’ than the young ones), I’d put you squarely in the $15-20K range in Area 2.

Yes, deals can be had, but they are deals, not typical.

[purplnurpl]

I disagree.
There should not be XC penalties at BN or N. Those fences are small. ESPECIALLY if the horse is advertised as a packer!! Packer means you can hang off of him only holding on to his ear and he will jump around clean.
For instance. Reed’s Shiver. That horse was a packer! Reed cooked him up to be a XC machine. He could be advertised as a packer.

10K is not much. Event horse prices are going up these days. Prices for young horses with big potential are reaching hunter/jumper market prices.

Too bad you can’t look at TX. we have a CUTE quarter pony being advertised on fb these days. Cute buckskin packer. 7.5K.

He’s on the North Texas Eventing Assoc facebook page.

I’m in the DFW metroplex and always available for buyers to go test drive and report back with a review! As long as the horse is within an hour or so drive…

here is the add:
6 year old large Dun pony for sale. Rider has sadly outgrown. Tiger has been shown in pony hunters and has been schooled cross-country. Schools 3’6" at home. Extremely brave and willing. More of a push ride. Jumps from any distance every time and doesn’t mind rider mistakes. Has lead changes and is super easy away from home. Easy keeper and low maintenance. Asking $7500 obo. Video available.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/dun_zps2e7eafe5.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/dun3_zps565ef6db.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/dun2_zps887f1900.jpg

[PaintedHunter]

I’d have to try the horse myself to be certain of anything. I could easily see myself getting XC penalties for being a dingbat and steering improperly/starting to head to the wrong jump and noticing at the last second I was wrong. If ever I get xc jumping penalties, it will be because of me and not Ollie.I could see that happening a lot with the unconfident sort like me who like the packer rides

You can always find really brave horses outside of eventing too. Ollie had never done XC before last summer, but he’s taken to it like a duck to water and LOVES it. Point and shoot. He’s probably the most honest and unflappable horse I’ve ever met.

[Big_Grey_hunter]

If possible, look at the rider record as well, and better yet find pictures of the pair competing. Sometimes you’ll find the rider has x-country problems on everything they ride, or it’s their first time doing eventing, or (looking at pictures), that the horse is doing the best they can with the monkey clinging to their back. Plus, there’s no way to tell if it’s an actual ‘stop’, if the rider can’t steer and the horse didn’t realize it was supposed to jump, or if the horse was just trying to save it’s stupid owner’s ass.

As the owner of a lovely, kind, saint of a novice horse with a not so great record, I don’t agree that x-country penalties preclude a horse from being a packer. In short, if you like everything but the record, go try the horse anyway.

[lovemytbs]

Thanks for the thoughts and conversation, it’s good! PaintedHunter, I’ve tried to make a few non-eventer’s event and unfortunately for me it hasn’t worked out. So trying to go back to “doing it right” and finding one that’s doing the job and doing it well.

[PaintedHunter]

[QUOTE=lovemytbs;7496862]
Thanks for the thoughts and conversation, it’s good! PaintedHunter, I’ve tried to make a few non-eventer’s event and unfortunately for me it hasn’t worked out. So trying to go back to “doing it right” and finding one that’s doing the job and doing it well.[/QUOTE]

Gotcha. I suppose I did luck out with my guy- he is game for anything so long as treats and cuddles follow

[vineyridge]

I agree that you are looking at the most famous names in your area for your horse and they will add considerably to the price. If you were to lower your sights to lesser known trainers and barns, the prices would probably be lower.

Take a look at the listings on PC sites as well as private listings on Area II’s website. If I were looking, I’d look at my area’s Pony Clubs for outgrown horses/going off to school/discovered boys riders.

For instance from the National PC site:
http://old.ponyclub.org/classifieds.php#1

Virginia Region
http://www.vrponyclub.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&id=7&Itemid=64

[scubed]

Try some smaller trainers or private sellers. Dark Horse Eventing in VA, Classic Bay Eventing, http://www.hilltopfarmva.com/. Also, pony club sites. I often find the real packers have done mostly unrecognized events, harder but not impossible to get records on those. PM me if you want. I have a long list as I was recently looking

[yellowbritches]

Are you considering the riders when looking? Are the stops with a name you don’t refinish, like maybe an ammy owner or kid? Possibly a working student? Or is it the BNT? When I was shopping and saw issues, I always considered the rider. If it was someone I was unfamiliar with, I looked up THEIR record to see if I saw a pattern on other horses (is it just THIS horse with bad dressage scores/multiple rails/xc stops, or is their a pattern with other horses? That can say a lot.