USEF COVID-19 showing rules

[anon6923113]

Popping back into this thread to add a few points I have recently discussed in real life with people who directly work in…

1. Hospital administration for a nationwide corporation
2. Oncology program management for a major hospital
3. Private practice - specifically as a pediatrician who is a partner in their own private practice in a major metropolitan area.

So a few things I think are important to mention here that I have heard from all these people and seen confirmed in news reports from many sources…

Hospitals around the country have plenty of capacity to treat patients… except, perhaps in the New York area. That’s the reality. There were major concerns earlier on in this situation about hospitals being overwhelmed, and not having enough ventilators and ICU beds. But again… with the exception of a few hospitals in the heart of the NYC outbreak… the worst fears about exceeding capacity to treat patients have not come to fruition… yet. No one knows if a second wave situation, or the development of new hot spots in other parts of the country will cause stress on particular hospitals and result in capacity constraints. But right now… it isn’t the case. There definitely IS a shortage of PPE at many hospitals. That is a major challenge. But not a shortage of space in ERs, available beds, ventilators, etc.

What actually is becoming a growing MAJOR issue for many working directly for major hospitals, and the private practice doctor I spoke with… the shutdown that happened within the medical field with respect to non essential procedures, and the decision by many patients to avoid going to a health care provider now for routine appointments and other care? It has had serious impacts economically on hospitals and people who work in healthcare. Many hospitals are actually furloughing staff.

So… I think concerns over falling off a horse and getting injured at a horse show, and unduly stressing a medical system that is trying to respond to Covid-19 patients are not actually warranted in most areas of the country.

With that said… if someone is at increased risk individually for infection because of an underlying condition (immunosuppressed, diabetes, age, etc), then that individual very well might NOT wan to risk showing, falling, and being injured and requiring emergency medical care at a local hospital.

So… just wanted to point that out.

Also… to the point just made by bornfreenowexpensive… I have heard that there are some significant issues with tests. Both for the disease itself, and with the antibody testing. I’m not saying this to discourage anyone from getting tested, or to disparage efforts concerning testing. It’s definitely come a long way, and is much more available. But it’s imperfect, and I’m not sure it’s a tool that should factor into the plan for starting back up with horse shows.

Also… the idea of taking temperatures and screening folks before they enter horse show grounds. That idea come with concerns that might outweigh the benefits. The folks I have spoken with who have actual experience with this right now are the oncology program manager… and folks who work in aviation. The oncology program manager mentioned STRICT protocols for oncology patients entering their facility, because many of these patients are immunosuppressed and in poor health due to treatment. Temperature taking was part of their protocol, but it was only performed by a trained nurse, and additional steps were taken EACH time an incoming person was screened to ensure that the screening itself did not transmit germs or a potential virus from one patient to the next. How would it actually be handled at a horse show? I’d personally have serious concerns about having that one protocol becoming a pathway for transmitting virus between people if an asymptomatic person without a fever walked through, and then an untrained (professionally and medically speaking) volunteer used the same thermometer on the next several folks coming to the show.

When it comes to temperature screening in airports that is meant to deal with a significant volume of people coming in and out of a terminal in an expedient, low risk way… I have heard about thermal imaging equipment being used. It’s akin to walking through a metal detector, and a person sits several feet away looking at results on a computer screen each time someone walks through, to note whether or not they have a fever. There is not the same risk of actually transmitting disease via close contact that way. But that equipment is expensive, and not likely practical for horse shows.

Maybe I am missing updates on other threads… and temperature taking and testing have already been ruled out of all plans for potential reopening of shows. If they haven’t though… I think both are more of a headache and a virus transmission risk in and of themselves than an actual practical risk mitigation tool.

Just wanted to share these perspectives on some of the issues mentioned.

[retreadeventer]

WOW events I attend regularly are going to have to completely change the way they currently operate. One entrance - for volunteers and horse trailers - wow. That’s mandated not optional.
Appointments to go to the office for whatever reason. One way doors in and out. Mandated, not optional.
Sign the new release form - everyone including volunteers. Mandated, not optional. And done online for safety.
Volunteers must ALSO be temp checked. Mandated, not optional.
SIGNAGE at entrance - mandated, not optional.
Gathering at the rail - warmup - warmup jumps. Cannot have trainers in warmup adjusting jumps at all. Must be done by volunteers and the jumps must be sanitized regularly. Trainers must stay away from other horses so they are going to have to pretty much have designated spots at railside as far as I can interpret rules. For safety and lack of transmission.
Warmup for dressage and show jumping really needs an overhaul anyhow and this is going to mandate that. Time schedule needs to be absolutely followed. Warmup rings need to be carefully monitored. One way in and one way out. Only the few warming up in the area - depends on rings available - no longer the free for all with 25 horses in warmup. In a typical 100 x 200 warmup ring I can’t see more than 6 horses being allowed to follow the distancing guidelines. This means pros with grooms holding horses at the ringside … nope. Every horse in warmup must be there for a reason. No more non competes in warmups as they take a space from a competing horse in there. No more pros with multiple horses going in and out at will. Scheduled warmup with sheduled ring time period.
I was told only 3 people per horse/rider - no spectators allowed - or discouraged. That would be groom, coach, parent, typically. All subject to temp and must sign release.
I know they are already working on dressage/show jumping judges being able to work with scribes remotely. I think it would be smart of events to have their show jumping rail setters stationed separately around the arena with cones or tape at each station to keep trainers and watchers from being in close proximity to them. Again a trainer designated watching area that is separated by cones, etc. to keep people apart.
Jump judge briefings - no go. There are fortunately other options - the USEA jump judge videos are a great briefing of themselves, and there are things like Facebook live and zoom for on-site official stuff - just send the judges and stewards out on course with radios.
Scoring - all done remotely by scribes sitting or stationed away from others. Scribe xc results by radio - no sheet pickup (jump judges can keep sheets, they just won’t have pickups), just call in on radio - and the XC controller keeps results, and all can be set in the new scoring program being developed by Steve Symansky and Nick Hinze. All done on laptop.
No bit check - the rules allow for the suspension of bit check under circumstances of disease transmission, this qualifies.
Officials and management radio and phone communication and group meetings a no go.
Pretty much everyone stay in their cars (volunteers) and riders stay with their trailers and horses. Parking further apart than we currently do at most events - more like 15 - 16 feet than 10 ft.
Organizers need to really read these guidelines. They will need to really work on getting these changes made BEFORE trailers start pulling in the grounds. The USEF is not giving much leeway on this. These all seem to be mandated rules for competition or they will pull the plug.

[retreadeventer]

Also scoreboards - no congregating at scoreboards! I think they shouldn’t even use them. Just check your phone.

[anon6923113]

Have they disclosed how they are doing the temp checks, and who will be doing the temp checks?

[FitzE]

The banning I suggested was not for having a post-event positive test. It was for having a post-event positive w/i 14 days and NOT letting the event management know if such reporting was a requirement of participation. Very different thing. I’m not sure how that was misunderstood.

To clarify: If part of participation is agreeing to let management know if you test positive within 14 days after the event and you choose not to comply, you don’t get to compete there again. If you get it and are asymptomatic? No obligation so no worries. But if you know you might have exposed your fellow competitors and event staff and don’t give them the heads up as required by a waiver you signed to participate then you are not welcome back.

Again, just an idea. We have to brainstorm ways to be part of the solution, not just think of reasons why we can’t. Fine if my first spitball isn’t workable but we’ve got to be able to do better than…nothing at all.

[enjoytheride]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Have they disclosed how they are doing the temp checks, and who will be doing the temp checks?

At my company you are technically supposed to sign a HIPPA paper saying that you’ll comply with certain standards and then you’re supposed to get training on the forehead thermometers. I can tell you that nobody signs, nobody does it right, and I often register as “dead.” I have no faith in the accuracy of the thermometers.

[anon6923113]

@enjoytheride

At my company you are technically supposed to sign a HIPPA paper saying that you’ll comply with certain standards and then you’re supposed to get training on the forehead thermometers. I can tell you that nobody signs, nobody does it right, and I often register as “dead.” I have no faith in the accuracy of the thermometers.

That confirms my worst fears.

i hate forehead thermometers. They are all junk and almost always register my or my kids temps as lower than they really are. But heck - obviously we can’t all share one under the tongue.

The temp taking component of this plan is going to be a problem.

[enjoytheride]

@Virginia Horse Mom

That confirms my worst fears.

i hate forehead thermometers. They are all junk and almost always register my or my kids temps as lower than they really are. But heck - obviously we can’t all share one under the tongue.

The temp taking component of this plan is going to be a problem.

I don’t necessarily think that that it’s a bad idea to take temps, but the forehead versions don’t seem accurate at all.

[OverandOnward]

Well at least I won’t be excluded for a high temp. I’ll measure not just “dead”, but “dead for a couple of days”. :lol: My temp always measures well below normal with common methods, for reasons.

The temp thing is lining up to fail utterly, there will be so many exceptions and mistakes. And objections. Organizers & TD’s hate wrangling with objections! :eek: :winkgrin:

[anon6923113]

@OverandOnward

Well at least I won’t be excluded for a high temp. I’ll measure not just “dead”, but “dead for a couple of days”. :lol: My temp always measures well below normal with common methods, for reasons.

The temp thing is lining up to fail utterly, there will be so many exceptions and mistakes. And objections. Organizers & TD’s hate wrangling with objections! :eek: :winkgrin:

Yup. And logistically this seems like it might be a challenge, and create a bottleneck for people coming onto the grounds.

[enjoytheride]

@OverandOnward

Well at least I won’t be excluded for a high temp. I’ll measure not just “dead”, but “dead for a couple of days”. :lol: My temp always measures well below normal with common methods, for reasons.

The temp thing is lining up to fail utterly, there will be so many exceptions and mistakes. And objections. Organizers & TD’s hate wrangling with objections! :eek: :winkgrin:

When it’s cold out mine registers 96 degrees and when it was really cold a few people registered 93! Usually mine’s around 97. It’s hard to take the time to get it accurate.

[OverandOnward]

@enjoytheride

When it’s cold out mine registers 96 degrees and when it was really cold a few people registered 93! Usually mine’s around 97. It’s hard to take the time to get it accurate.

And even trained nurses struggle with things like this. :lol:

With me they try this other method, try that other device, while I natter on about how this is just how it has been all my life, then they get a supervisor to try, then they get flustered and give up. E for effort!

And at a horse show it will be a non-expert volunteer with a set of rules to look at and an OTC temp-taking-device that someone picked up at Walgreens. Or brought from home. Already feeling sorry for that volunteer. Even after the first hour they will feel like they’ve had a long day. :o

And anyway, testing is what’s wanted here, not temperature that will be irrelevant for some percentage of potential positives. Testing testing testing. :yes:

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I think they will get some push back on these. Especially the temp taking. It makes far more sense to just have people take their temps at home and certify they are fine (rather than creating a bottle neck and exposing another volunteer)…just as we should be temping and monitoring our horses before coming.

I see more events running unrecognized…or upping their prices as a result of this.

[willowoodstables]

But I also will not be horse showing until there is a vaccine proven to work. At my age (and asthmatic) going to a horse show that cost a lot of money to win 5$ and a scrap of ribbon is not worth it!

[endlessclimb]

They can use thermal imagers instead of temporal scanners. They are more accurate, and no-touch.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@endlessclimb

They can use thermal imagers instead of temporal scanners. They are more accurate, and no-touch.

Events already are run on shoe string…I can’t imagine a thermal imager is affordable but don’t really know. And it still creates a bottleneck and need for more volunteers or paid employees. Just seems not worth it to me. A self certification…where all competitors/volunteers/ officials certify and take their temperature at home each morning would be more efficient.

[endlessclimb]

@bornfreenowexpensive

Events already are run on shoe string…I can’t imagine a thermal imager is affordable but don’t really know. And it still creates a bottleneck and need for more volunteers or paid employees. Just seems not worth it to me. A self certification…where all competitors/volunteers/ officials certify and take their temperature at home each morning would be more efficient.

Agreed. Just wanted to comment that there are other options available that are more accurate. A tripod mounted thermal imager is not that expensive (3-4k), it’s the handheld ones used for equipment troubleshooting that are in the 20k range.

[anon6923113]

@endlessclimb

Agreed. Just wanted to comment that there are other options available that are more accurate. A tripod mounted thermal imager is not that expensive (3-4k), it’s the handheld ones used for equipment troubleshooting that are in the 20k range.

That’s interesting - only 3 to 4 k? That’s really cool. The ones I e heard about that people walk through are connected to a laptop and there is software involved though… So that the person reading the data on the laptop keeps the individuals temperature data private from everyone else in line waiting to walk on through. I have no clue what the software is that’s involved…

The whole temp thing has some tricky tricky components to it all… health info privacy being one. I’d think twice before signing off at an event to just waive HIPPA because of temp requirement. And I’d read that waiver in great detail.

But back to the machines… That’s what I was trying to say that they are using in airports now - thermal imagers. They started out with them for flights going between the US and Mexico in mid March. And now I believe they are getting rolled out in terminals across the US.

I also agree it’s too expensive for events though.

Self checking temp seems the best and most practical way to go. Same as one does with a horse. And avoids a million potential HIPPA minefields.

[endlessclimb]

@Virginia Horse Mom

That’s interesting - only 3 to 4 k? That’s really cool. The ones I e heard about that people walk through are connected to a laptop and there is software involved though… So that the person reading the data on the laptop keeps the individuals temperature data private from everyone else in line waiting to walk on through. I have no clue what the software is that’s involved…

The whole temp thing has some tricky tricky components to it all… health info privacy being one. I’d think twice before signing off at an event to just waive HIPPA because of temp requirement. And I’d read that waiver in great detail.

But back to the machines… That’s what I was trying to say that they are using in airports now - thermal imagers. They started out with them for flights going between the US and Mexico in mid March. And now I believe they are getting rolled out in terminals across the US.

I also agree it’s too expensive for events though.

Self checking temp seems the best and most practical way to go. Same as one does with a horse. And avoids a million potential HIPPA minefields.

They also can be problem-fraught in sunlight, as we have found out. It is connected to software, but it’s included with the thermal imager. If it’s what they need to do, then 4-5k is chump change. It’s still not fool proof though, and therefore won’t solve the problem.

[Janet]

$4-6k is more than the net profit for many HT. The only way that would work would be if one machine was shared between many events.