Anyone else curious to know who she is suing next? I could be wrong but I don’t remember anyone on here who “conspired to willfully and maliciously injure Amber Hill Farm”
RIP Humble.
The pharmacology instructor in the next office agrees with me that the action is not, in the classic sense, “enzymatic”.
The biochemist (a protein chemist who spent a career working with enzymes) with whom I share living quarters feels the same.
They may initiate an enzyme mediated reaction, but they are not, themselves, enzymes.
[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;6651486]
You now have a situation , where the USEF is ALLOWING trainers / owners / riders to kill a horse at a competition with no repercussions , Quick everyone get your horses Life / accidental death insurance policies updated, Killing your horse by accidentally throwing it into cardiac arrest [edit] is now legal at a USEF sanctioned Horseshow. The USEF has ruled that unless the killer willingly hands over the incriminating evidence they won’t sanction, suspend, or bar you in any way shape or form, business as usual…[/QUOTE]
Back in the 1980’s, I called the then AHSA about a horse showing in the Preliminary Jumpers under another horse’s ID number. I was told by the office the owner of the horse would have to admit to letting the trainer use the ID number. Seems like the same logic as above - some things don’t change.
It all boils down to the fact that the subject has proven to be most litigious. USEF does not want to get involved in a long drawn out court battle filled with month after month of responses. I wish we would all refrain from even discussing the subject as history has shown she desires it. Good press, bad press, matters not. I guarantee she is harvesting screen names of those who speak negatively of her.
[QUOTE=MyssMyst;6653129]
Next thing you know, ponies will be getting plastic surgery to pin higher in the model :no:
?[/QUOTE]
LOL. I have one who could use some Rhinoplasty.
This is via her farm’s Facebook page.
Protests Against Elizabeth Mandarino Dismissed by USEF Hearing Panel
The USEF Hearing Panel dismissed the protest against Elizabeth Mandarino relating to the death of Ms. Mandarino’s pony “Humble” at the Devon Horse Show. The protest contained allegations that Ms. Mandarino violated various Federation rules and caused the death of “Humble.” Following a thorough hearing, the Hearing Panel ruled that the protest was unsubstantiated.
Prior to the hearing and in support of the request to lift USEF’s temporary suspension, Ms. Mandarino provided the necropsy report to the CEO of USEF, including full toxicology results that showed testing for over 1100 different substances. Because the protest alleged a medications violation, the Hearing Panel was also provided with the full toxicology reports from New Bolton and the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture. Both the CEO and the Hearing Panel were also given a list of medications administered to Humble at Devon. All of the medications were permitted under USEF rules and therefore did not require medication reports to be filed.
Immediately after the death of “Humble,” Ms. Mandarino arranged for New Bolton to perform a full necropsy, which was carried out and reviewed by several respected veterinarians. They concluded that “Humble’s” death was likely caused by an underlying lung disease that had never been diagnosed. Several veterinarians opined that the results were not consistent with an acute drug reaction. There was no evidence on necropsy that an illicit substance was given or that an injection was administered incorrectly.
In a separate matter, the Hearing Panel also dismissed a protest filed against Ms. Mandarino for unsportsmanlike conduct on the grounds that the protest was unsubstantiated.
[QUOTE=wyldhorseb;6654557]
Immediately after the death of “Humble,” Ms. Mandarino arranged for New Bolton to perform a full necropsy, which was carried out and reviewed by several respected veterinarians. They concluded that “Humble’s” death was likely caused by an underlying lung disease that had never been diagnosed. Several veterinarians opined that the results were not consistent with an acute drug reaction. There was no evidence on necropsy that an illicit substance was given or that an injection was administered incorrectly.[/QUOTE]
I’m not questioning the quality of these reports (which I have not read) but it does seem very unusual timing that the latent undiagnosed lung condition exacerbated coincidentally at the same time as the pony was being given an injection. Unless the theory is that the injection irritated the lung problem. In which case, for my edification, I’d really like to hear what this condition is and if it can be tested for. My horse periodically get injections and they’ve never had specific testing for latent lung disease. If I could be triggering a latent condition, I’d like to be educated about that condition so I could make choices about the wisdom of injections.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;6654349]
The pharmacology instructor in the next office agrees with me that the action is not, in the classic sense, “enzymatic”.
The biochemist (a protein chemist who spent a career working with enzymes) with whom I share living quarters feels the same.
They may initiate an enzyme mediated reaction, but they are not, themselves, enzymes.[/QUOTE]
…I really think you are picking apart the phrase “enzymatic activity” a little too critically. I was simply trying to address the fact of the relation between the two agents-- which would be the “enzyme mediated reaction” they initiate, if you prefer that term. Please excuse me for the vagueness of my words…I think it gets the point across for those who would prefer to skip the “dirty details.”
[QUOTE=jlphilli;6654680]
…I really think you are picking apart the phrase “enzymatic activity” a little too critically. I was simply trying to address the fact of the relation between the two agents-- which would be the “enzyme mediated reaction” they initiate, if you prefer that term. Please excuse me for the vagueness of my words…I think it gets the point across for those who would prefer to skip the “dirty details.”[/QUOTE]
There is a big difference between sparing people the “dirty details” and providing people with false information; the latter is what you provided in your first post. Steroids are not proteins, which means they cannot be enzymes and therefore cannot possess enzymatic activity. When you said that depo and corticosteroids have similar enzymatic activity, you were giving out false information. You were not in any way sparing anyone the “dirty details”.
Posts like yours are like nails on a chalkboard to scientists, who do in fact prefer to use correct terminology in cases like these.
[QUOTE=Salome;6654459]
It all boils down to the fact that the subject has proven to be most litigious. USEF does not want to get involved in a long drawn out court battle filled with month after month of responses. I wish we would all refrain from even discussing the subject as history has shown she desires it. Good press, bad press, matters not. I guarantee she is harvesting screen names of those who speak negatively of her.[/QUOTE]
Let 'er rip. People are allowed to express their opinions on a public BB , no matter how litigious some folks choose to be. Ms. Mandarino hasn’t has much luck in winning her many lawsuits and I doubt the action against “unknown” internet posters will be any different.
As for USEF , they should take a good look at the precident they’ve chosen to set. :no:
[QUOTE=Salome;6654459]
It all boils down to the fact that the subject has proven to be most litigious. USEF does not want to get involved in a long drawn out court battle filled with month after month of responses. I wish we would all refrain from even discussing the subject as history has shown she desires it. Good press, bad press, matters not. I guarantee she is harvesting screen names of those who speak negatively of her.[/QUOTE]
The following is the COTH report on the subject:
The U.S. Equestrian Federation Hearing Committee recently heard a protest filed against Elizabeth Mandarino by another USEF member. The protest alleged that certain USEF rules were violated at the 2012 Devon Horse Show (Pa.) on May 26, when Mandarino administered an injection to her pony, Humble, and thereby caused his death.
The USEF Hearing Committee ruled that the protest must be dismissed for lack of substantiation. The Hearing Committee noted in its findings “…that the proof available at [the hearing] was not sufficient to answer the complex medical/toxicological questions that underlie the central allegation in the protest.”
When I read this, I did not get the impression that any information was withheld, but that the results of all tests conducted did not provide evidence that any USEF rules were broken. Therefore, the case can’t be anything but dismissed.
This should not be surprising to anyone who knows that the the people who are drugging horses are always one step ahead of the people who are testing for the drugs that are being administered. USEF dismissed the case because they evidently don’t HAVE a case, not because they don’t want bad publicity.
I’m not passing judgment on this particular case at all (I have my opinions there), but I really don’t see any evidence here that indicates USEF could have done anything other than what they did. Maybe I’m missing something though?
y, I think you are right. If one injects a pony with a substance ,let’s say for example Magnesium,which kills the animal, it would be impossible to prove what had been administered.
Just another reason USEF needs to tighten up the needle-fest at their competitions.
Beef steers already do this. Every year the large breeding operation a couple town over has the vet out, they open up the polls surgicaly, then chisel the skull to a more desired shape on the steers they plan on using in the show string
Just out of curiosity, how many of you would support the USEF’s adoption of FEI rules regarding drugs and medications at our rated competitions.
[QUOTE=Addison;6655567]
Just out of curiosity, how many of you would support the USEF’s adoption of FEI rules regarding drugs and medications at our rated competitions.[/QUOTE]
Not I.
If I can take two Advil, my horse can get a gram of Bute.
[QUOTE=MHM;6655593]
Not I.
If I can take two Advil, my horse can get a gram of Bute.[/QUOTE]
Vote number 2 for this.
[QUOTE=MIKES MCS;6651486]
You now have a situation , where the USEF is ALLOWING trainers / owners / riders to kill a horse at a competition with no repercussions , Quick everyone get your horses Life / accidental death insurance policies updated, Killing your horse by accidentally throwing it into cardiac arrest [edit] is now legal at a USEF sanctioned Horseshow. The USEF has ruled that unless the killer willingly hands over the incriminating evidence they won’t sanction, suspend, or bar you in any way shape or form, business as usual…[/QUOTE]
Thats exactly what I understand from this situation. Straight from the article: “USEF does not have a policy for horses dying or those that are put down at rated horse shows, despite the organization’s claims to have equine athletes’ welfare as a top priority”
:no:
The FEI doping regs, in practice, don’t work any better for the horse than the USEF’s. There are plenty of black market “pharmaceuticals” in use at FEI competitions as well.
FEI and USEF have an identical issue. Staying ahead of the chemists.
As the saying goes…be careful what you wish for.
[QUOTE=Ruby G. Weber;6655644]
The FEI doping regs, in practice, don’t work any better for the horse than the USEF’s. There are plenty of black market “pharmaceuticals” in use at FEI competitions as well.
FEI and USEF have an identical issue. Staying ahead of the chemists.
As the saying goes…be careful what you wish for.[/QUOTE]
IV Magnesium, for example, is just as “untestable” under FEI rules as USEF.
Here we go again…
