[quote=“Amberley, post:38, topic:805771, full:true”]
There was a recent post here of someone riding a clearly not-sound pony and the people who pointed it out (nicely) and made some (gentle) suggestions were told to mind their own business and many people jumped in to defend the poster riding the lame pony. There is a lot more of that in the horse world and it’s a far larger problem than jumpers being ridden in the show ring with bits people on the internet don’t like.
What “training” are you speaking of? Do you think that riding a lame horse is OK as long as it is being ridden at a schooling show where lameness will not be disqualified?
I couldn’t believe it when I saw those two items. How the heck can they equate those two things - hell, we’ve all snuck into VIP tents at some point in time. That trainer was brutal but I guess since he didn’t sneak into a tent, all is ok. I hate what’s happening to shows.
It could also be that no steward was there to see it because nobody alerted them. But the bigger issue is that stewards are picked by show managers. That puts the stewards in an awkward position even if they and the show manager have the best intentions. At some point that equation has to change.
And I know we all think we know a lame horse when we see it, but it is not always that straightforward. A hot topic in FEI jogs is who gets the final say on spinning a lame horse. For the longest time it was the ground jury, aka your dressage judges, but it’s not unreasonable to ask why a judge can override the FEI vet on whether a horse is “lame” so I believe that rule changed or is scheduled to change. To bring it back to our hunter shows, we just don’t involve the vet at all. That may put judges in a bit of a quandary and their first instinct might be to look for other reasons not to place the horse or pony. I’m not sure of the answer, but maybe we could start with jogs before the show started followed by the equivalent of our driving in harness inspection, where we just trot a figure 8 before competing in that day’s phase, at least for the bigger classes.
On another note, that original author of the letter kind of irked me on the issue of that poor horse in Aiken. In our quest for justice we often take things we read, hear or say as legally settled facts. But that is rarely the case. Pics of Andrew M’s horse with whip marks were infuriating and there was enough reporting from variable sources providing first hand accounts that it was most likely true, but none of it was proven to be true (eta what I mean is that prior to the formal investigation it wasn’t proven to be factually true). The initial internet posts consisted of close cropped photos of just the horses and a bunch of people saying they always knew he was like this. As compelling as the plaintiff’s case against the Aiken horse was, it was again, only the plaintiff’s case, it wasn’t settled and without witness testimony it may have been proven not fully accurate. Even Andy Kocher’s case took time to verify that the dude wasn’t just wiring his breeches, that he did have electric spurs. Honestly, the only one where I think USEF grossly failed to act was when the TX vet got a free pass on the initial hearing. I can’t fathom why USEF didn’t say “hey, you know what Texas board, if you want this one as your vet, have at it. But we’ll take a hard pass tyvm.”
So as frustrating as it is, I understand that these cases that arise from social media are simply never going to be resolved at the speed social media demands (unless you are Charlotte and for whatever reason just agree immediately to be suspended pending final resolution). But I do think penalties could at the very least be retroactive back to when you were notified you were a target. Yes you can show. If found guilty your prize money, points and placings will be revoked (or possibly withheld until final resolution in the case of prize money). No, your show fees won’t be refunded. It’s a small thing and there are definitely a class of people who feel they are above the rules and it will not affect their behavior, but it may give pause to most people.
I can’t remember who wrote the article that made the point that many USEF board members (who make the rules) are show organizers, and that was an issue. They didn’t propose a solution however.
USEF not backing up their officials was also mentioned. That is an issue that could be corrected immediately. It seems that USEF has become an unwieldy slow moving bureaucracy that is unable or unwilling to enforce it’s own (voluminous) rules.
Oh you know the drill here… only gets criminal charges if law enforcement cares to charge them, and for something like animal abuse, that requires a lot of heat.
I do think USEF would benefit by releasing the data of complaints made and results of findings. I know right now, I have been hearing for months that a specific BNT was the pentobarbital person and he was rolling on everyone else trying to get his suspension reduced, but nothing has come of it. The horse that collapsed at Saratoga last year and got kicked in the stomach had a clearly upset steward watching, and nothing has come of that. It very well could be that these complaints were taken seriously and investigated and they were found innocent, but to the outside observer, it looks like USEF did nothing in the face of a serious issue.
One of my favorite gate people posted on facebook a few months back and has spoken out that when there are problems, dragging someone on social media isn’t the way to handle it and instead to go through the proper channels. He said when he had reported concerns that he felt they were taken seriously, which was interesting to me, since I have never heard a female amateur have the same impression of making a report.
Hard to believe use of electric spurs or any similar device isn’t a lifetime ban.
The “breed” exhibitors probably wouldn’t want the USEF to do that (wink wink).
I thought so too. Maybe she is mistaking Michael, who’s his brother, and in good standing. His Father, Kelly, also is at the shows but again, in good standing.
While I agree that horse abuse and thievery should not have equal punishment, I disagree that “we’ve all” snuck into VIP tents at some point in time. You may have, but speak for yourself. The food and cocktails served there are not cheap and people who sneak in without paying and eat the food and drink the drinks are stealing from the sponsors, and are disrespecting the people who have paid their fair share.
The fact that this woman did this twice shows a lack of moral compass that is a sad commentary on her character.
We can agree to disagree. I will go to my grave saying that sneaking into a VIP tent does not reflect the same “lack of a moral compass” as beating and torturing a horse. I don’t care how many cookies she stole! And trust me, I’ve paid for enough tables under the VIP tents to simply not care about one individual. These days, we have to choose what things to be outraged about. This ain’t it.
I did say that the two were not comparable. Was I not clear?
The only VIP tent that I’ve paid for was not a matter of a few cookies. There was some expensive food and drink.
While abusing a horse is unacceptable and of course more egregious, I wouldn’t pay dues to an association that had a cheat as a board member who feels no compunction about ripping off sponsors repeatedly, nor would I use them as an instructor.
Honesty is an important factor when choosing with whom I do business.
People sneak in to use the nice bathrooms at the end of the day when the porta potties are gross, not to eat the cocktail sausages. And really, for $500 / stall we should all have the nice bathrooms.
AK has shared photos of himself on FB posing with students and a horse decked out in an Andy Kocher Showjumpers saddle pad on the HITS Culpepper grounds - but it appears to have been taken during one of the schooling shows held there…
I can’t believe people would still choose to work for him, train with him, etc. And it makes me wonder if the schooling show has anything in their rules about following USEF rules, etc and if that in turn should prevent him being on the grounds…
But hey, there are also plenty of videos on social media of him riding horses at home that are “owned” by his assistant trainer and shown by her at rated shows…so…
Here’s what chaps my hide about the “town hall” method of governance. The current USEF (also the USHJA for that matter) don’t care what the members think. Amateur rules modification!? Changes to the junior measurement rules? Do it by fiat. Then backtrack when people don’t like it. Sallie Wheeler West? Cancel it unceremoniously. Then find out people are pissed. Then bring it back. Zone 2 finals are a cluster? Have a town hall. Get mad because you don’t like negative criticism and people are “mean.” Don’t implement all the suggested changes. Don’t disclose any financials, which people were asking for.
So forgive me if I view town halls as doublespeak for “basically do nothing.” When these organizations want to act they just do, membership be damned, and when they don’t want to do something— no amount of member outcry makes a difference. They don’t act. What are they going to learn in a town hall that is going to affect their action on this issue? What could members possibly tell them that they don’t already know?
100% this. Not just the town halls. Even the committees and task forces have been shocked by some of the decisions, with reports of no notice of these changes.
As members we have no say in the governance, and I don’t expect that to change unless we have a direct referendum for the board of directors.
There’s nothing as frustrating as someone asking people to give their input and concerns and then, when concerns are voiced, saying “I hear you” when they may as well add “but nothing is going to be done about it”.
When I asked USEF if they were going to implement the FEI’s noseband tightness measurement, the response was that there are “no discussions about implementing the rule at this time”.
giving 