USEF Proposed rule changes? cross posted

[DownYonder]

@eponacelt

On the AA rule, I think its fair. Once you’re competing at that level at CDIs, why should you be able to compete against regular amateurs at First Level in your Region. I had to ride against Alice Tarjan (who has been on US Teams in Europe) last year at Third Level. She is definitely an “amateur” by the money rule, but she’s basically a professional rider. She’s also a lovely person and of course she beat me by a LOT. I’m not bitter about that, but she’s really more of a professional.

@K_VanOlst

She’s not making her money in the horse industry (IIRC she’s a lawyer) - just because she happens to be an exceptional rider doesn’t make her a pro

Maybe there should be another category added for “Elite Amateurs” like Jorst and Tarjan. That would level the playing field for “non-elite” amateurs, which is what the amateur division should really be about.

[K_VanOlst]

@DownYonder

Maybe there should be another category added for “Elite Amateurs” like Jorst and Tarjan. That would level the playing field for “non-elite” amateurs, which is what the amateur division should really be about.

It really strikes me as sour grapes and a solution in search of a problem - how many of these elite AAs are there truly? Not many. Tarjan and Jorst to be sure. Out of how many thousands of AAs? I don’t really want to have to show against Retired Rebecca with unlimited free time and more money than I can imagine who keeps her $$$$ imported horses in full training and only sits on them for a weekly lesson and show, because I’m a mediocre AA keeping horses in my backyard in a dressage desert doing this on a shoestring, but I just have to suck it up. Where do we draw the line? Either you make your money in horses, or you don’t.

And how are they defining “most” of a person’s income? Is USEF going to start asking for tax returns to prove where you money comes from?

[Zonderpaard]

Agree!

I fail to see how a 68% magically makes someone a pro.

And people who really do compete at the highest levels can always enter the open classes. I would. The difference is the color of the ribbon, not your score, right?

[lorilu]

Many of the GR rules also impact dressage.

Regarding “wading through”, the top of each page you click on has a summary.

[lorilu]

@Zonderpaard

I fail to see how a 68% magically makes someone a pro.

I think this comes from the FEI definition. Not sure.

@K_VanOlst

And how are they defining “most” of a person’s income?

Agree…

@MHM

don’t know how they think they’re going to enforce that one, unless they want to hire a huge, roving troop of stewards to wander around the show grounds all day to watch people take temperatures.

This is the current rule at WEC. You post it on a card outside your stall. They check.

[lorilu]

@DownYonder

Maybe there should be another category added for “Elite Amateurs” like Jorst and Tarjan. That would level the playing field for “non-elite” amateurs, which is what the amateur division should really be about.

So, say one of these “Elite Ammys” has a young horse to bring out. Should the regular, national (not CDI) show offer an additional division for them? Or should they be limited to the Open classes and enter them (well of course they CAN as can all Ammys)?

[IPEsq]

@lorilu

This is the current rule at WEC. You post it on a card outside your stall. They check.

I think it’s fine for individual facilities to implement their own biosecurity rules (it’s common in my area too). I don’t think this makes sense as a USEF rule, though. Apart from the vaccine rule to allow parameters for horses who can’t be vaccinated.

[DMK]

@IPEsq

I don’t think this makes sense as a USEF rule, though. Apart from the vaccine rule to allow parameters for horses who can’t be vaccinated.

We are lagging behind the rest of international competition in this regard and there’s not any excuse to not do the absolute bare minimum in biosecurity

[lorilu]

what? No… just making it easy… really what did I do??

[Mersidoats]

Amy Swerdlin just cleaned everyone’s clocks at regionals in the AA division at multiple levels.

I think the amateur proposal is in the right direction. 68% feels arbitrary. I’d like to see how they decided on that. Why not 67? Or 69?

[DMK]

on my phone you have to download every. single. rule. via PDF to even see anything other than the rule # … So seeing a summary at the top of the downloaded page isn’t saving any time.

I’m guessing it works a little different on a PC (it usually does), but it is a bit cumbersome on an android, at least!

[K_VanOlst]

@Mersidoats

Amy Swerdlin just cleaned everyone’s clocks at regionals in the AA division at multiple levels.

I guess the interesting question would be would this rule change apply to her too, forcing her to show as a pro? Or is it a case of “rules for thee but not for me”.

[SillyHorse]

Never mind, I thought you were taking me to task for not looking further into the GR proposed rule changes. I was wrong, and I’m sorry for my reaction. I will delete it.

[SillyHorse]

@K_VanOlst

@Mersidoats

Amy Swerdlin just cleaned everyone’s clocks at regionals in the AA division at multiple levels.

I guess the interesting question would be would this rule change apply to her too, forcing her to show as a pro? Or is it a case of “rules for thee but not for me”.

No one has to show as a pro. She’d have to show against pros, though, in the Open division.

[K_VanOlst]

@SillyHorse

No one has to show as a pro. She’d have to show against pros, though, in the Open division

Sorry, you’re correct, my comment was poorly worded.

[hoopoe]

yes on PC they load as a PDF. Check your phone documents file

[atr]

How do they deal with haul-ins?

[lazaret]

Correct me if I’m wrong but for the CDI-Am the requirement is not having a world ranking and has nothing to do with income?

[Janet]

@eponacelt

On the AA rule, I think its fair. Once you’re competing at that level at CDIs, why should you be able to compete against regular amateurs at First Level in your Region. I had to ride against Alice Tarjan (who has been on US Teams in Europe) last year at Third Level. She is definitely an “amateur” by the money rule, but she’s basically a professional rider.

The first sentence of the Amateur rule (GR1306) says:

Amateur. Regardless of one’s equestrian skills and/or accomplishments, a person is an amateur if after their 18th birthday, as defined in GR101 and GR103, they have not engaged in any of the activities identified in Section 4 below

Eventing addresses the "elite Amateur " issue by having “Rider” divisions, defined as:

Open to competitors who have not completed an event above the next highest level in the 5 years preceding the date of the competition,"

[Janet]

@K_VanOlst

And how are they defining “most” of a person’s income? Is USEF going to start asking for tax returns to prove where you money comes from?

Years ago there was rule, proposed by the Eventing committee and passed by the USEF board, that defined “Amateur” for Eventing as not making more than $2500 from “Professional” activities. But USEF Legal struck it down as unenforceable. So I don’t think that this one will get past USEF Legal.