USEF Proposed rule changes? cross posted

[Zonderpaard]

Fully agree.

If it’s “amateur” and pro, we’re stuck with the income question. If it’s rider “class” we can differentiate on experience and prior performance. The latter seems the better option to address the inequities people are feeling.

Back in the pleistocene I competed at a new CT event on our regional calendar and won my division. The next year I competed again, same level. It was a non recognized event, lots of ammies. Lots of folks moving a horse up. That second time I rode HDC. It was a great outing for us and I had no regrets about not driving home with a nice ribbon on my pickup visor.

My scores were posted because it is important for all competitors to see what riding and horses are rewarded. The purpose of scores is not only to arrange the giving of prizes.

[Mondo]

@SillyHorse

It is called a competition. People are competing for placement in the classes. So, as long as it’s a competition, and there places awarded with ribbons, then yes, that’s why many people compete. What else would they be “competing” for?

Yes, I understand this. But if you read what I quoted, what AppleCore1 said, you’ll see that I do think some divisions are warranted. Maybe not just the black and white Pro vs Amateur

[Janet]

@LawsofMurph

I just wish USDF would follow USEF and allow those who teach Therapeutic Horsemanship to be amateurs.

My poor friend has to show open regardless of the fact this is her first year ever riding dressage just because she instructs special needs individuals on horseback.

Where are you finding this rule that people who teach therapeutic horsemanship cannot compete as Amateurs in Dressage?

DR119.3 says "Individuals possessing current amateur certification are only eligible as Adult Amateurs from the beginning of the calendar year in which they reach age 22. "

There is no reference to “therapeutic” in the Dressage rules.

The General rules say
GR 1306.2 “Remuneration. Amateurs are permitted to accept remuneration for the following activities:
…
c. Accept remuneration for teaching or training disabled riders for therapeutic purposes.”

The only Amateur rule that is specific to Dressage is that it starts at age 22 instead of 19.

[MHM]

@DownYonder

Refresh my memory. Are these rule changes voted on by the membership, or by committees at the convention? Or by the board?

Members can comment to their hearts’ content.

Then committee members discuss, and then I believe board members vote.

[DownYonder]

@MHM

Members can comment to their hearts’ content.

Then committee members discuss, and then I believe board members vote.

Thanks, that is what I was thinking but couldn’t remember for sure.

[Janet]

@MHM

Members can comment to their hearts’ content.

Then committee members discuss, and then I believe board members vote.

To clarify, the relevant committees, after discussion, for each proposal, either approve, disapprove, or submit a comment. The proposals that get “approve” from all the relevant committees are put on a “consent docket”, and voted on as a block by the board. Any proposals that have “disapprove” from one or more of the relevant committees are, I believe, discussed and voted on individually by the board.
(I am on one of the committees, so have been through that part of the process.)

[LawsofMurph]

@Janet

Where are you finding this rule that people who teach therapeutic horsemanship cannot compete as Amateurs in Dressage?

According to a TD, teaching Therapeutic horsemanship is the same as being a professional instructor per current USDF rules.
The USEF general rules list this and she can show as amateur in the local Hunter Jumper club, but the UDSF rules do not. We checked with our local club and the TD we know. She has to show Open.

[MHM]

Wow.

[Zevida]

I’m pretty sure that’s bad information. You should email USDF directly. USDF does not have any rules about amateur status other than age.

If your local club is running a schooling show (unlicensed) then they can make up whatever rules they want of course. But if you are talking about a USEF/USDF show that’s something else.

[Janet]

@LawsofMurph

per current USDF rules.

What USDF rules?
The competition rules are all USEF rules.
USDF has rules about their awards programs (bronze/silver/gold medals, All Breeds awards, and so forth). But the competition rules are all the USEF rules.
I have searched the USDF web site, and can’t find anything about teaching therapeutic riding.

Please ask your TD friend to show you the rule she is talking about. I suspect this is a case of miscommunication.

[Knights_Mom]

@Mondo

@Applecore1

I’ve long thought we need to do away with the AA division and make ‘rider’ divisions like eventing has - you can compete in the ‘rider’ division if you haven’t shown more than one level above (or don’t have X medal?) in the last 5 years. Objective measurement, no grey area, and allowing good AAs to teach a few lessons or ride a few horses on the side could greatly increase the availability of affordable entry level lessons, and allow middle class people more options to fund their horse journey.

Agree with this 100%. If you can’t hope to get a ribbon in an Open class, but you might in an AA class, then really isn’t it just a participation ribbon to begin with? Your score is your score is your score. Unless you(g) believe that the judges are easier on the ammies. I don’t. I think they judge each ride the same. So if you got a 62% in the Open Class, and therefore out of the ribbons, you would get the same 62% from the same judge in an Amateur class and potentially be in the top 5. Your score didn’t change, but you get a pretty ribbon to hang on Dobbin’s stall door. Is that really why you compete?

Yes that’s EXACTLY why many people compete. One is someone I know. All she wants is to play dress up and win stuff. So she competes in a group that’s easier than USEF dressage and at the lowest level despite having ridden since a wee little kid. Then her FB page shows the ribbons and certificates and people she knows thinks she’s awesome. Plus she gets to have a whole new slew of friends doing the exact same thing.

I do not begrudge this. Horse shows, dog shows etc is all about pride anyway.

[Janet]

@Zevida

USDF does not have any rules about amateur status other than age.

And even THAT is a USEF rule (for Dressage), not a USDF rule.

[LawsofMurph]

@Janet

What USDF rules?
The competition rules are all USEF rules.
USDF has rules about their awards programs (bronze/silver/gold medals, All Breeds awards, and so forth). But the competition rules are all the USEF rules.
I have searched the USDF web site, and can’t find anything about teaching therapeutic riding.

Please ask your TD friend to show you the rule she is talking about. I suspect this is a case of miscommunication.

I would very love to be wrong! She’s heading to a show in November and we will ask again. I’ll bring copies of the rules. She’s just dabbling this year, but would definitely like to be an Amateur next year when she tries for real!

[hoopoe]

its is easy enough to direct her to the proper place in the rule book. If she is wanting to ride in USEF shows she should make herself familiar with the rules at pertain including drug rules, Ammy rules, and the comprehensive Dressage rules which is a wealth of general dressage information

[hoopoe]

@Knights_Mom

Dr. Reiner Klimke.

The ultimate amateur.

but was he, by USEF rules? DIdnt he teach clinics in the states? Moot though as I suspect he never rode in an open USEF show.

[Mersidoats]

@Mondo

I think they judge each ride the same. So if you got a 62% in the Open Class, and therefore out of the ribbons, you would get the same 62% from the same judge in an Amateur class and potentially be in the top 5. Your score didn’t change, but you get a pretty ribbon to hang on Dobbin’s stall door. Is that really why you compete?

Yes. I grew up not being able to afford to own a horse, or even think of showing. I placed last in almost every riding school schooling show I entered and it sucked. I like winning ribbons. I like winning. I like having a ribbon rack full or blue and red rosettes. I’m type AAA, extremely competitive, and I like to be the best. I get very angsty when I make stupid mistakes and when i score lower then I know I’m capable of. Because it is always my fault. Not the horse.

I also love my horses, and can only afford to show a few times a year. So it’s a balancing act. But yes - I like to show to wear fancy clothes, show off my horse to the judge, and I really like coming home with ribbons. I guess I’m still a 12 year old.

[lorilu]

@LawsofMurph

I’m not an active member right now since retiring my old man last year, so I doubt I can propose it

Talk to your Regional GMO Representative. Or any member - I am sure you know someone who would put this forward.

[Zevida]

@Mersidoats

@Mondo

I think they judge each ride the same. So if you got a 62% in the Open Class, and therefore out of the ribbons, you would get the same 62% from the same judge in an Amateur class and potentially be in the top 5. Your score didn’t change, but you get a pretty ribbon to hang on Dobbin’s stall door. Is that really why you compete?

Yes…I like to show to wear fancy clothes, show off my horse to the judge, and I really like coming home with ribbons. I guess I’m still a 12 year old.

Me tooooooo! Don’t let them make you/us feel bad about that. I was pretty annoyed that on the second day of competition at the state championship they didn’t have enough ribbons for my class so I didn’t get to have a ribbon at my horse’s stall all weekend. Come on! There was a chance we weren’t going to ribbon in any class so I was really proud we did and it was a bummer to walk away from the office empty handed.

[Roberta]

USDF does not make the rules. It is USEF that makes the rules.

[SillyHorse]

@Roberta

USDF does not make the rules. It is USEF that makes the rules.

I know, I know! I have reminded people of that so many times – I can’t believe I had such a brain fart that I didn’t catch it now.