USEF rule change about judges teaching

[Knubbsy]

@Knights_Mom

It’s nice that USEF responded quickly but truth be told being it was big wigs like Janet Foy and other judges complaining loudly so I’m not at all surprised there was a fast response. Given this change directly affects the money “judge practitioners” (coaches/trainers) make doing a combo of judging and teaching I’m sure USEF heard from just about all of them.

From what I heard from course designers (who are being dinged further on in the new rule), some officials are rightfully concerned and some totally missed it. I definitely think having more prolific names like Janet, Kristi, and Natalie raising the alarm helped - and why they were told/encouraged to remove/edit their posts once the editing process was announced.

[roseymare]

What is this about course designers?

[Knubbsy]

The new point 10 in the same rule change

It shouldn’t be a big deal and it seemed pretty benign but there are so few course designers that they tend to have a geographic monopoly (Area II has what, 4?), it seems like they’re really hard for a universal rule for ALL officials, regardless of actual impact. (anyone can ask the CD for advice and the CD doesn’t adjudicate unlike a judge or a TD).

Since it’s the USEA convention this week, it will be interesting to see what comes out of it

[roseymare]

Thanks

[trubandloki]

Why would there be some huge benefit to be trained by or live with the course designer? Geez.

[Knubbsy]

@trubandloki

Why would there be some huge benefit to be trained by or live with the course designer? Geez.

That’s what we’ve been wondering - the best we can think of is you might have more opportunities to ask questions but knowing CDs, not really because leading up to an event they practically live on site.

[trubandloki]

@Knubbsy

@trubandloki

Why would there be some huge benefit to be trained by or live with the course designer? Geez.

That’s what we’ve been wondering - the best we can think of is you might have more opportunities to ask questions but knowing CDs, not really because leading up to an event they practically live on site.

But it is not like everyone does not have the chance to walk and exam the course all they want before they ride it. You (general) can figure out the tricks and stuff of the course and how your horse needs to be ridden while walking the course.

[roseymare]

Doesn’t seem like much of an advantage to me either but I have never shown a rated hunter show so my course we’re not hard. You know outside line diagonal outside line stuff.

[trubandloki]

@roseymare

Doesn’t seem like much of an advantage to me either but I have never shown a rated hunter show so my course we’re not hard. You know outside line diagonal outside line stuff.

Well, I guess that is a valid point. I had not thought of the hunters where walking the course is not really a thing. But still, they are not set up with tricks either so…

[roseymare]

Sorry I use hunter to differentiate from the other shows I completed in. It is for sure not completely accurate but it is in my head. LOL

[roseymare]

I just forget other people aren’t in my head! I showed a QH as well as Arabians in my youth.

[Gardenhorse]

I can think of a few examples. Perhaps the SJ course designer has put a particular combination on a course (maybe a tricky bending line or some other kind of related distance) and then the week before the competition they give a rider a lesson and practice exactly how to ride through that combination.

Or the XC course designer tells all their clients that they should be sure to school a particular type of cross country fence before the competition.

[trubandloki]

I think you made a good point. Though this post is in the dressage section, I think you make a good point reminding us about hunters too.

[trubandloki]

None of this worries me, but maybe I am weird.

It is like saying no one who boards at the facility where the show is should be allowed to show because they can school in that ring over those fences all the time.

[roseymare]

There is really no way to make horse shows a sport where everyone is in the same plane at the start of the class when it comes to competition.
Even IHSA shows where you draw for a horse. Some schools always host so they are on their own school horses. Some people seem to have a knack for drawing the same horse again and again…I’M THINKING OF YOU WHISTLE. I rode that stinkin pony all of the time! Seniors have an advantage.

In horse shows someone will always have an advantage. Albeit slight in some cases.

[Janet]

@Knubbsy

Since it’s the USEA convention this week, it will be interesting to see what comes out of it

Not sure if it will come up. I asked Malcolm,and he didn’t even know about it.

[Knubbsy]

@Janet

Not sure if it will come up. I asked Malcolm,and he didn’t even know about it.

Yikes! That’s definitely something he should have known about. You’d think USEF would run these kinds of rules past the sub-organizations this would affect or at least the primary ones (USHJA and USEA)

[MHM]

As I said in a previous post, I don’t think it was included in the list of proposed rule changes that went out to USHJA members for comments a month or two ago. And I believe it was not on anyone’s radar in that group until a week or so ago.

But I’m pretty sure that now it will come up for discussion at the annual meeting next week, strictly as a result of the recent attention on social media.

[Knubbsy]

I know they didn’t go out to the general membership but you’d think the rules committee might get a head’s up

[DownYonder]

@Snow_Mass

Word on the street is this is a reaction to antics currently taking place in the H/J community where trainers who are judges get show dates, clients “quit” 30 days before the scheduled show, compete under said judge, and one day 31, move back into a trainer/client relationship.
Legal under the current USEF regulations but as a repeated behavior - ethically questionable.
One must assume that it’s becoming an unfortunate a-typical behavior for this proposal to gain legs.
Maybe the answer is to extend the time a part to something that would truly cause a financial burden to the rule abusers - say 90 or 120 days.

It seems that the ijits that run USEF have the same inability to foresee unintended consequences as Congress. “Oh, some folks are misbehaving. Whee - let’s pass a law!” Without even a thought that said law will penalize everyone else that is NOT misbehaving.

If people are gaming the system in one particular discipline, then make the rule apply to just that discipline. Why not make it something like “90 days for H/J shows recognized by USEF”?

I’m sure folks will argue 90 ways to Sunday about how it isn’t fair to penalize just the poor H/J competitors, but if that’s the group that is misbehaving, then make that group face the consequences and leave everyone else the heck alone.