USEF says L-theanine prohibited in calmers

[axl]

Geldings can be turned out with other horses and enjoy a herd experience. In no way would I ever equate gelding to performance enhancing, it is QOL enhancing. Does it make them quieter and perhaps easier to handle? Well, for the most part, yes. But I wouldn’t do it if I had a potential (dating myself) Popeye K or Abdullah in the barn.

If I had a 4yo with a great jump and lovely movement that had some attitude but might make a nice junior/AO hunter? Yes, but the attitude adjustment would improve his whole life. It would not be because I was trying to adjust his performance. Junior/AOs don’t want a stallion anyway IMO.

[skydy]

@Demerara_Stables

@Ghazzu

You haven’t met my stallions, then.

I’m not saying all stallions are poorly behaved, but I’d guess that’s why most of them are gelded. If they are perfectly behaved all of the time regardless of their equipment, why put them through the surgery?

Most horses aren’t gelded to improve their manners. Most horses are gelded because they don’t have the qualities necessary to become a breeding stallion.

[Demerara_Stables]

@skydy

Most horses aren’t gelded to improve their manners. Most horses are gelded because they don’t have the qualities necessary to become a breeding stallion.

And because leaving them intact means they are more difficult to handle for the average horse owner. If they behaved as geldings we wouldn’t be sterilizing them. We don’t sterilize every mare that isn’t fit to be bred.

[Ghazzu]

Wild and difficult to handle.

which one is the stallion?

[luvmyhackney]

@Demerara_Stables

And because leaving them intact means they are more difficult to handle for the average horse owner. If they behaved as geldings we wouldn’t be sterilizing them. We don’t sterilize every mare that isn’t fit to be bred.

Really… We geld because most people board and boarding barns don’t want to deal with the liability of a stallion. Plus proper stallion fencing is expensive.

I’ve handled stallions, no issues. It’s not as popular to geld in other countries where a stallion is expected to behave and properly taught manners. My experience is the avg owner has a poorly mannered horse and it doesn’t matter if a stallion, gelding, or mare.

[Demerara_Stables]

@luvmyhackney

boarding barns don’t want to deal with the liability of a stallion. Plus proper stallion fencing is expensive.

They don’t want to deal with liability…because they can be ill behaved…because hormones. And that’s why we geld them, so the hormones are no longer a variable. I’m not sure why this is so hard to understand?

[Demerara_Stables]

@Ghazzu

Wild and difficult to handle.

@Demerara_Stables

difficult to handle for the average horse owner.

You’re not average, and this photo doesn’t show a stallion being handled off property around mares that may be in season.

For sure stallions can be incredibly well behaved at home and in public when they are handled correctly by experienced people. They can also be dangerous when left to their own devices and allowed to walk all over people. I’ve handled both. Never has a mare or gelding jumped on top of me to get at another horse (and if it was a mare that did, I’d be checking her hormone levels).

[skydy]

@Demerara_Stables

We don’t sterilize every mare that isn’t fit to be bred.

Which is too bad because there are many mares that are bred that shouldn’t be. Spaying a mare however, is obviously a more complicated invasive procedure, not really comparable to gelding.

If you look at gelding from a breeder’s perspective it is a form of culling their stock and preserving the quality of their bloodlines.

As @luvmyhackney mentioned, there are several European countries (and I think some Middle Eastern ones as well) that don’t geld as a rule, but they don’t breed the stallions that aren’t worthy of passing along their genes. They know how to train and handle stallions, a skill set that is disappearing in the U.S. and now seems to be limited to racing barns, breeding farms and high level competition barns.

Racehorse breeders don’t geld their well bred colts early as a rule, for several reasons, possible breeding in the future being one of them.

If you were handling a stallion and it jumped on top of you to get to a mare, you were not handling it properly. Stallions need to be well trained and their handlers need to see that sort of thing coming (don’t walk between a breeding stallion and a mare and, keep their attention on you ) to prevent it from happening. Handling stallions is definitely a skill, but it can be taught to people who have a lot of “feel” for horses.

[Demerara_Stables]

@skydy

If you were handling a stallion and it jumped on top of you to get to a mare, you were not handling it properly.

No he actually jumped on top of me to get at another gelding that was 15 ft away in the cross ties. We had the horse for one day and he came from a jumper barn where we were told he was shown regularly and lived in a barn with both genders with no issues. The horse ended up being gelded because multiple grooms/trainers couldn’t handle him safely and showing him and having him around strange horses was dangerous. He was lovely at home once he understood boundaries and the routine, and I handled him for a full season at WEF.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@Ghazzu

Some of the most potent pharmaceuticals in the world are derivatives of “natural substances”.
Would you consider opium to be an acceptable calming supplement?

You’re being pedantic. sometimes I really can’t stand these boards and the people on them.

[Ghazzu]

@Demerara_Stables

You’re not average, and this photo doesn’t show a stallion being handled off property around mares that may be in season.

I’ve taken a stallion to the vet school to be collected, then put him back on the trailer and continued on to a show, where there were plenty of mares, some in estrus, and also plenty of other stallions.
No one was endangered that I ever heard about.
My breed association allows juniors to show stallions.
(I believe they’re barred from leadline classes.)

For sure stallions can be incredibly well behaved at home and in public when they are handled correctly by experienced people. They can also be dangerous when left to their own devices and allowed to walk all over people. I’ve handled both. Never has a mare or gelding jumped on top of me to get at another horse (and if it was a mare that did, I’d be checking her hormone levels).

Oh, fer pity’s sake–any horse, be it mare, stallion, or gelding, needs to be handled correctly.
Any of them can be dangerous when " left to their own devices and allowed to walk all over people."
Testicles have little to do with that.
As I’ve said here and elsewhere for eons, testicles are no excuse for poor behavior.
IIRC, it was Bluey who said, " if you’re training a young horse and he acts up, take a rolled up newspaper, hit yourself with it, and say 'bad trainer! bad!" --or words to that effect.

[Demerara_Stables]

Yes, any horse can be dangerous but mares and geldings don’t get loose and run around and risk trying to mount another horse.

I don’t think testicles are an excuse either, but as I mentioned in the very beginning, stallions are more difficult for the average horse owner and by definition, most people are average. I am certain that your stallions are well behaved as are stallions that are regularly handled by professionals. But that is not the case for most horse owners, hence why most colts get gelded.

[Ghazzu]

You ought to get out more.
I’m all for gelding horses that aren’t stallion caliber, but not because they’d otherwise be the equivalent of fire-breathing dragons.

[skydy]

And that’s why most “average” horse owners have geldings, because the colt wasn’t stallion material and was thus gelded. Easy to understand, I think.

[skydy]

[skydy]

Do you have Arabians? I was allowed to handle, and a few times allowed ride, my boss/mentor’s Arabian breeding stallion at home. Under the rules I could have ridden him in shows. She showed him, not because he became unmanageable at shows, but because his record was important. I was 10ish and allowed to ride her horses that were to be sold as junior mounts.

He was a good egg and easily handled, I think partly because of his nature, and partly because he was very well trained to know breeding time from riding time.

[Ghazzu]

@skydy

Do you have Arabians?

I do.
I lived on a breeding farm for a couple years, and we routinely turned stallions out in groups, took them to shows, hunter paces, trail rides, etc.
they were taught to behave while wearing tack, and we used a particular halter/lead when breeding, so they knew they were allowed to talk to the mares then.

[skydy]

That’s what my mentor did. She also took them out of a different door of the barn for breeding.