USEF says L-theanine prohibited in calmers

[Aussie_2020]

I agree with today’s show hunters being numb. Hunters seems to be another version of western pleasure. Quiet, non-reactive, and slow. As a spectator I’d like to see much more animation, but I guess that’s why hunters doesn’t have spectators.

As to shows being too expensive to take a young or inexperienced horse to just hang out at… There usually are other show types that are less money. Schooling, dressage, open, but maybe these are not in your area. Also, clinics can give somewhat of the same experience as does trailering to other barns for lessons.

[Demerara_Stables]

@Aussie_2020

As to shows being too expensive to take a young or inexperienced horse to just hang out at… There usually are other show types that are less money. Schooling, dressage, open, but maybe these are not in your area. Also, clinics can give somewhat of the same experience as does trailering to other barns for lessons.

This. Another option is the YHS (Young Horse Show) series which is very accessible on the eastern half of the country, and designed for doing exactly this (complete with other competitors and handlers that understand what you’re going through!).

You can always just haul your young horse to a friend’s barn to walk around or hack, probably without spending a dime save the gas money. Lots of options.

[skydy]

@Green_Light

Or we could push to change the expectations that hunters go around like automatons instead of trying more and more ways to make them quiet.

Armchair arguments about the spirit of the rule, telling people to take their young horse to a show (have you seen the fees lately?) to walk it around but not show? These aren’t true solutions, especially in this economy.

The root of the problem is expecting numbness and perfection from prey animals while screeching about how it’s “tradition.” Anyone who has fox hunted knows that today’s hunters are nothing like being on the hunt field.

Show hunters have been different from field hunters for decades.

Hunters, at the upper levels at least, are not winning these days by going around like “automatons.” Times are changing, albeit slowly.

No one in their right mind and with any experience would complain about this:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/video-chestnut-mare-energy-reigns-as-ondine-dorleans-wins-wchr-hunter-spectacular/

As for the expense required to take your young horse to a show but not compete? After you have exposed your horse to off property experiences (friend’s barns, clinics etc) if you plan to show your horse in USEF shows, at some point you will have to expose them to the rated show atmosphere. It may be best not enter them right off the bat though. Baby steps.
Pay to acclimate them.

[fivestrideline]

@skydy

if you plan to show your horse in USEF shows, at some point you will have to expose them to the rated show atmosphere. It may be best not enter them right off the bat though. Baby steps.
Pay to acclimate them.

And if you can’t afford to eat the cost of trotting a course/scratching the day because it’s too much/going early to hack and watch… maybe you(g) can’t afford a young/green horse . The costs of producing a show horse include teaching them how to be comfortable at shows. While following the letter and the spirit of the rules. If you cannot show without the horse getting their “calming supplements”, you don’t belong in the show ring. End of story.

Do I think the costs of rated showing in particular are WILDLY unreasonable? Yes. Does that excuse breaking the rules and giving something to alter the horse’s behavior (ex: to calm it)? Absolutely not.

Are PP and all those herbal/natural/“legal” supplements breaking the rules? Yes.

Do I think that most calming supplements with nothing banned in them are mostly just expensive pee? Also yes. So do I think the officials have larger issues (like people doping with euth meds) and thus are likely to let slide a tube of Really Expensive Placebo? Yeah for sure.

(Not to mention the conflict of interest with the brands being sponsors. That’s never really made sense to me, but there’s a lot about rated showing that doesn’t make sense to me. Not limited to HJ, btw.)

Anyway. Early morning rant over.

[ParadoxFarm]

@skydy

No one in their right mind and with any experience would complain about this:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/video-chestnut-mare-energy-reigns-as-ondine-dorleans-wins-wchr-hunter-spectacular/

Okay, that was nice. I don’t often watch hunters because I’ve lost interest, but this was a lot more of what I think a hunter SHOULD look like. I hope the trend continues. (Love the white spots! )

[skydy]

Here is another great round, but great for a very different reason (scroll down for video.)

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/low-scoring-wchr-round-offers-a-winning-lesson-in-horsemanship/?_gl=1

[Demerara_Stables]

@fivestrideline

And if you can’t afford to eat the cost of trotting a course/scratching the day because it’s too much/going early to hack and watch… maybe you(g) can’t afford a young/green horse . The costs of producing a show horse include teaching them how to be comfortable at shows . While following the letter and the spirit of the rules. If you cannot show without the horse getting their “calming supplements”, you don’t belong in the show ring. End of story.

So well said, thank you!

[IPEsq]

@skydy

Are the USEF trainers you know jumping four year old horses that have only been ridden for a few months?

Not sure exactly what you mean by a “USEF class” but green 4yos are often showing at rated shows. Horses broke in Europe are often jumping up to a meter at 4, and these horses are regularly purchased as prospects for showing in the US.

[jvanrens]

Maybe reread the post she was responding to. Someone else brought up the few months, hence skydy’s question. Though I’m sure it’s possible that poster meant a few months in a big trainer’s barn.

[IPEsq]

I wasn’t confused about the few months part. Maybe the horse was initially started at 3, but that usually isn’t much riding time before they are turned out again. Some will introduce a 3yo to jumps under saddle. Some don’t. They are jumping pretty fast after getting going at 4 though. And the typical show classes for 4yos in Europe are up to 1m. These horses who may or may not have gone to shows yet are also bought by US buyers with the intention to walk at least into the baby greens fairly fresh off the plane.

[skydy]

@IPEsq

@skydy

Are the USEF trainers you know jumping four year old horses that have only been ridden for a few months?

Not sure exactly what you mean by a “USEF class” but green 4yos are often showing at rated shows. Horses broke in Europe are often jumping up to a meter at 4, and these horses are regularly purchased as prospects for showing in the US.

By a USEF class I mean just that. Showing horses in rated shows.

@Demerara_Stables believes that “most” trainers want to spend a few months “if that” training young horses to sell to people who are going to show the horse in rated shows.

I disagree. Apparently demarera knows some very lousy “trainers”. I’ve never known anyone who thinks that putting two months training is sufficient for a young horse to be sold as ready for any sort of jumping at rated shows. It’s just not done that way and it’s not big news to anyone who has properly trained young horses that horses are developed over years, not months.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@skydy

I disagree. Apparently demarera knows some very lousy “trainers”. I’ve never known anyone who thinks that putting two months training is sufficient for a young horse to be sold as ready for any sort of jumping at rated shows. It’s just not done that way and it’s not big news to anyone who has properly trained young horses that horses are developed over years, not months.

Totally agree with you. Spot on.

[IPEsq]

Part of development is mileage at shows, and my response is they a lot of people do this with young horses both here and abroad.

[fivestrideline]

@IPEsq

Part of development is mileage at shows, and my response is they a lot of people do this with young horses both here and abroad.

I follow a few EU breeders/young horse producers on Instagram. They’ve been really interesting to watch how they take youngsters to their first shows - usually they haul in for a day with a friend and just hang out. Then haul in and canter around the warmup. Then haul in and do a few jumper classes where the focus is entirely on giving the horse a good experience, NOT ribbons or anything competitive. All for just a day.

The advantage of this model is a young horse going to his first show isn’t expected to live on the busy show grounds for a week or more and lope perfectly around multiple hunter divisions. They go for a DAY, and pop around jumps they’ve probably seen before (arena hires are more common), and are expected to be a bit squirrelly. Then they go home to their pasture and friends and think about their experience.

A good US hunter trainer (or trainer in general) will give similar experiences to their youngsters - it’s just harder here. Bringing up a baby from scratch is tough if you’re living on the circuit and/or staying at shows T-S. (That’s part of the draw of imports I think - the well produced ones have had that homework done already). Clients are expecting RESULTS - after all, they’ve been waiting for ages and the show is costing them $5K or more… unless the trainer has installed concrete expectations, it can be tempting to reach for a non-testing chemical might-help solution (or lunge for hours, or tell the client to sell and buy something made) instead of doing the homework.

This got away from me a bit. But I think, as always, there’s “exposure to shows in a way that benefits the horse” and there’s “exposure to shows but done unfairly”. Good trainers do the former, poor and/or uneducated trainers do the latter. You’ll see the range at any given show - but I have to say I’ve seen the worst at unrated competitions. The unscrupulous people at USEF shows tend to hide it better, I guess. Or get booted

[Simkie]

@fivestrideline

This got away from me a bit. But I think, as always, there’s “exposure to shows in a way that benefits the horse” and there’s “exposure to shows but done unfairly”.

Along these same lines, I attended a polo match a bit ago, and (of course) was most interested in the horses. Each string came in on their own trailer, and ponies were tied to the trailer to be tacked up & wait.

But they also had a few…yearlings, maybe? Who were along for the ride. They were tied nearby, a little further away from the field, but nearby enough to the uber chill match ponies to absorb that energy, and also close enough to see what was going on with the match. They really just stood.

I think about that a lot. Babies, learning about their future job. In a really easy, chill way.

[steelerino]

Most of my really close friends are barrel racers and that is exactly what they do with their babies. Bring them to the race with the seasoned horses to hang at the trailer and then they pony them around the warm up pen or around the grounds.

[endlessclimb]

Yet when western trainers do this with their young ones, tie them at the rail while others are being worked, each in their turn - a large subset of people will cry abuse.

It is most bizarre to me. How do you expect a horse to learn how to stand tied quietly for extended periods of time, if not to practice it?

/rant over.

[Trekkie]

I started bringing some of my youngsters on outings long before they were under saddle. Hanging out in a stall and to graze at local shows, getting ponied around show grounds and on trail rides, etc. I did have some hunter people look at me funny when I was ponying one as they perceived it as “not safe” (like anything we do with horses is truly safe). I think H/J folks could learn and do better by young stock to get them out more on relaxed, easy outings with an older experienced horse as a guide. Good confidence building and makes future outings so easy.

[Simkie]

@endlessclimb

Yet when western trainers do this with their young ones, tie them at the rail while others are being worked, each in their turn - a large subset of people will cry abuse.

You’ve really not included context here, but there are also trainers, often western, who tie for for hours as punishment for “bad behavior.”

Which often is abusive.

But gradual introduction, chill horses, not making it punitive?

Not abusive.

I can’t say I’ve seen the latter called abusive, but, sure, I guess someone out there could think it is. If a lot of otherwise reasonable people are calling the situation abusive, I’d be inclined to think it’s the former.

[endlessclimb]

I mean tying on the rail. Example, all the horses for the morning get tacked up, tied to the rail. One by one, they’re worked, and then returned to the rail.

There are a large subset of people who believe tying a horse for any period of time longer than what it takes to groom and tack them is abuse. I was even told I must not like my horse when I did something similar, here on this board. shrug