Makes them duller and almost zoned out depending on the dose when given to a horse without metabolic issues.
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Thanks for explaining. Ughhh!
I think your paragraph could be an entire thread and debate. I’ve actually been thinking on it with this thread. My initial impression for horses have been these “additives” are poor taste, and I generally whether illegal or not may be a substitute for training, riding, etc. Now that impression includes my own bias and theory. It’s likely swinging a little unfairly against any positive use. Admittedly, I haven’t been in a situation where I was tempted for good or bad to use on my own horses.
However, in people, myself, I don’t consider these additives harmful at all. If anything I view these additives for “people” on a sliding scale with “normal” in the middle. These additives help someone who deals with anxiety down to their true normal. Similarly someone could be down and an additive raises them to their normal.
Could there be an argument that these ‘additives’ do have a place to help a horse reach its normal? Rather than just the additive taking it from normal, down to “drugged”? I don’t know. But, it’s food for thought. There’s so many nuances, moral dillemma, etc. in addition to the legality. But, I’d read a thread on thoughts.
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I answer no. Because horses are being shown for ribbons and many times for the profit that comes with that.
It is not comparable to humans with medical or psychiatric problems having to take medication to earn a living or to just be mentally stable enough to take care of their family and make their way in life.
If the horse can’t deal with showing it needs another job. Why has the understanding that some horses are unable to deal with the situations we put them in been so completely lost to people, and drugging them and “calming supplements” have become acceptable to their owners and riders?
USEF and the FEI have had to become the cops, chasing after the people that are competing their horses without regard for the rules or for their horse’s well being.
No big money at stake, drug rules, or testing at local shows where horses aren’t tested. Catch 22.
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I don’t disagree. Again my own bias, impression, is that these additives … I’m not pro-use.
But, I do love digging into where the line is of right and wrong.
I think there is one group of these additives, thinking like trazadone , dumbing down that can fit in a bucket, literally make the horse dumbed down. (And my own impression whether right and wrong is likely what happens in the industry, shamefully)
But, what if there was a section of these additives which like human medication, prevents the adrenaline neuron/stress hormone/etc from releasing. (I’m not a scientist so insert the correct scientific word, I just did a little research into my own root of anxiety)
Is this additive different in moral obligation not to give, than say a post-workout additive that prevents the brain from sending message to inflame around a joint.
We give joint supplements. In theory these supplements enter blood stream and tell the body how to react.
So is an additive that prevents the release of a stress hormone equal? Is there an argument ?
Is someone who gives an additive to a horse with a previous bad experience to alleviate his stess at a show a worse steward of their horse than I who may have a horse with a pre-existing injury that I now do some extra care (say at minimum a joint supplement and post-show gram of bute, I made this up) to so that I can continue to compete than retire. We can argue we both are ill stewards, my situation is a touch better, or there’s a sliding scale that we’re neither completely bad
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I’m going to play devils advocate here.
We - all of us here - surgically alter our horses for the express purpose of modifying mood and behavior. Not for better health for the animal, but to make it a more manageable partner for human beings. We literally cut out organs that the horse is born with so that we can enjoy him for recreational use. This is not an easy or pleasant experience for the horse, and it comes with risks. But we do it, and it is so ingrained in us that it’s the right thing to do that we consider it irresponsible to not subject the horse to this permanent alteration of its normal and natural state of being.
Of course it’s not just horses. We do this to nearly every animal that is used for our pleasure.
Just food for thought.
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On the topic of some legitimate therapeutic substances for day to day quality of life, I think USEF should allow more TUE applications. Knowing the rules on metformin and pergolide, I contacted USEF when my metabolic horse was taking a newer medication to help with insulin dysregulation because the class of drugs wasn’t on the banned list.
Based on the description of use, USEF told me that it would be fine but needed 24hr withdrawal and a medication report. Which means missing potentially several of the daily doses. In some horses, insulin is back up to uncontrolled levels by 7 days. Some horses would be at risk for laminitis if this happened.
Studies report that horses on the medication are actually more peppy / active than they were without because they feel better and the hormonal imbalance of ID tends to cause more stress and lethargy. A horse with this condition being managed will be healthier and perform better than if left untreated, but it’s also supporting overall good health on an everyday basis regardless of competition. Same with managing Cushings, in my opinion.
I wound up being able to take him off of the medication entirely for show season, but others may not be so lucky. Stopping and starting the meds sporadically is not ideal.
Same answer from USEF for Zyrtec (which is on the list). I suppose my horse does perform better when he can breathe, but it’s not as serious to skip doses as with metabolic issues. I still stuck to 2 day shows though so he wouldn’t have to go long without it especially in summer when air quality is poor and allergy triggers (bugs, mostly for him) are high.
It really makes no sense why Pergolide is the only TUE eligible medication in modern times when we know that horses deal with a lot of chronic conditions that are totally manageable, sometimes with pharmaceutical assistance, and proper management is a good welfare practice.
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That’s a VERY good point.
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Answer - everyone must own unspayed mares.
That is a good devil’s advocate position, though. Good food for thought.
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Also can be a masking agent of other medications.
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I see your point here. Don’t get me wrong. But it is more than just for the express purpose of modifying mood and behavior. It is also to allow the horse to have a more social lifestyle. Most stallions are kept by themselves. And of course, try to find a boarding facility for a stallion.
PETA is all over this kind of thinking. We also “train” them to allow us to ride them. It’s not their first inclination to allow a predator on their back. So, should we stop riding them?
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A lunge line itself is not exercise. It is a thing. If you apply a lunge line to a horse in a certain manner, it can be mood or behavior altering. I didn’t see substance as a defined term in the rule, but I could have missed it. Merriam webster has one definition as “physical material from which something is made or which has discrete existence,” which a lunge line arguably fits.
I’m not actually trying to be difficult. Of course the rule isn’t intended to capture anything other than meds. But in trying to draft a rule that could capture all medications or drugs, the rule was written so overbroad as to be almost useless. (Essentially “moot for vagueness” - or the idea that the lack of clarity or precision makes it opens it to multiple interpretations, rendering it irrelevant for practical purposes.)
My point, simply put, is that from reading the rule alone no one would know whether Regumate (for a mare) or a tube of perfect prep are allowable.
I do think USEF does the best it can with trying to keep up with creative (
) ways people think up to cheat. SynNutra also should have taken a hint from perfect prep who released an “industry update” post back in January saying that L-Theanine had been banned and their products would not contain it (which I found with a quick google). But it is also weird to me that the banned medications list hasn’t been updated to include L-Theanine.
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I saw an article this morning about the excessive use of supplements in people. There is cause for concern over liver damage. I’ve long wondered about this with animals and all the additives that are mixed into the foods we give them.
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I disagree Rel6. The rule is fairly clear to me. If you are giving your horse something to make it calmer, the something is illegal.
Too many people are splitting hairs (I realize you are also playing devil’s advocate here). Longeing for too much time? Yeah, that makes my horse calm (or overly tired). Dex? Same thing.
If your horse is not super calm, then perhaps it isn’t meant to be a hunter? Don’t like that? Then change the judging.
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What about Ulcergard?
If someone puts their spooky horse on a Ulcergard regimen at a show to see if his spooky behavior is due to stomach discomfort, is that illegal? They used it with intent to calm.
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You have got to be kidding me. This just is not accurate. Male horses are gelded for their own well being and safety, not solely to “modify behavior”. As there are many well behaved stallions. The possibility of aggression and mounting, unwanted pregnancies, and socialization and housing. That’s to make life better for the horse, not to get 5 dollar ribbon. Not to mention owners who can’t even handle a spicy mare or gelding ( just look at this thread of people looking on how to calm their horse without it “testing”.) so yeah- compare unicorns and alligators
It is most definitely for the betterment of the animal and it blows my mind this argument is presented.
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Then Regumate would be illegal. USEF has stated that it isn’t in mares.
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You made her point. It is illegal in geldings because there isn’t a biological indication other than calming. In mares helps not just as a “calmer” per se but suppresses estrus, can help with breeding schedules etc. much like other meds, like pergolide, can be given if there is a medical need. You can’t control WHY someone gives it to their mare, but there are indications other than calming.
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If that were true, it wouldn’t be an unequivocal “legal.” It could require a medication report form from a vet saying why its needed (breeding schedules, etc) just like Pergolide.
And why are people suppressing estrus? To alter mood and behavior. Again, going back to the text of the rule - that is prohibited.
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