It is made of DEET. Generally safe around horses but should be extremely careful around eyes and mucous membranes. Some horses can have allergic reactions to DEET. The majority of horse fly sprays are Permethrin based.
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Of course it is DEET, that is why people use it.
I ride in areas with lots of ticks, I totally coat my horseâs legs, tail, etc. with Deep Woods Off.
Thank you for clarifying. It was a case of someone who worried about reactions, not a case of someone trying to enforce a rule. Since we were talking about a show steward and a horse show I assumed you meant there was some rule about it.
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Let me clarify some things. Hair testing is actually hair follicle testing. That is the metabolites are really contained in the living tissue of hair and not the keratin. Things like DEET etc. sprayed on the surface of hair would not show up as the hair is digested and âmodifiedâ (ground down, filtered, combined with specific chemicals) in order for liquid chromatography mass spectroscopy (LC-MS) to be used. Within the obtained spectra software filters are applied to exclude common molecules know to be metabolites of common things in and around horses.
Drugs such as pentobarbital have unique metabolites that are discernible.
I am wondering about costs. It takes me 6-10 samples for a decent measure of the presence of something using MALDI-ToF mass spec. 20 samples for ICP-MS and 15 samples for ToF-SIMS. Thus for a single human patient it may cost me up to $5000, depending on the method used to get data I can be confident in.
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That does not sound like what theyâre talking about here:
https://tvmdl.tamu.edu/case-studies/segmental-analysis-of-hair-for-drug-detection-in-racing-horses/
The chronicle article in the first post also references hair growth, not just the follicle:
"Schumacher said that while testing does provide access to a longer medical history, the test does not give a precise answer about when exposure happened, a limitation of the testing technology compounded by the natural variability in hair growth.
âThere are some techniques to try and determine either chronicity or the rough estimate of exposure, but each horse is going to be individual and variable because of the length of the mane and how fast they grow their hair,â he said. âSome other independent variables can throw that off.â"
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That certainly sounds accurate, since weâve all known horses that need to be body clipped practically every other week, it seems.
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Supposedly hair would be tested only for those substances that should never be found in horses (eg barbiturates). They would not test for anything that is USEF legal at appropriate levels or withdrawal times.
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NDAs are no protection against illegal activity. And while violating USEF rules isnât âillegalâ, animal abuse is. I donât think it would be a tough call for a judge to dismiss that legal action, especially since the legal department at USEF would probably support the person subject to the NDA.
@RAyers interesting stuff, but I know the racing community has being doing hair testing, so it makes me wonder if thereâs a less expensive model out there? But I assumed it involved follicle testing as well, maybe hair growth is cheaper but follicle testing is more time accurate? Grasping at hairs here⊠
ETA the Google says hair strand testing is the more common form, used for detection of long term drug use, while the hair follicle test is for infrequent/short term drug detection.
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There is NOTHING wrong with using DEET, OFF, or fly spray on the legs and stewards are not watching this at HJ shows. This is in reference to the now dead bill in Congress that the Big Lick people opposed because it was mostly directed at them. They got a vet to say that it is possible in some sort of circumstance that fly spray on the legs (or something caustic disguised to look like fly spray and put into a fly spray bottle) could possibly maybe be used to cause a sensitivity reaction. The issue is Big Lick people have been putting caustic substances on their horses legs for decades and have gotten very good at hiding what they are doing, often right in front of Stewards. They then got half the horse world worked up that fly spray was going to be banned.
The bill died, fly spray is legal, if youâre not a shady Big Lick trainer you have nothing to worry about. If you know your horse is reactive to some fly sprays the best advice is to not try out a new brand at a show.
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Off topic, but I learned recently the Big Lick abusers have a new, sly horse inspection loophole. They offer âtrail ridesâ and arenât covered by Horse Protection laws.
You pay, compete and win stuff. Make a weekend of burning horse legs. Itâs not a âshowâ so no DQP to check for soring.
Those people are sick.
Sorry. Saw the Big Lick reference and rememberedâŠ
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When a racehorse goes to the test barn after a race, they try for a urine sample first, then take blood if the horse wonât pee. The hair sample thing is relatively new and is being done at the TB sales to detect the presence of bisphosphonates which apparently stay in the hair for a very long time. A horse who has been given bisphosphonates at any point in its life is ineligible to race ever. At the yearling sales, buyer pays for the test (if they wish to have it done). I believe the charge is $500. The horse is returned to the seller if it tests positive.
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Wow! Thank you for sharing this. I did not know. Good for them!!!
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Why is that? Just curious.
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I believe it has to do with the interference with bone remodeling by biphosphonates, leading to an increased risk of catastrophic injury.
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Interesting, thanks.
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If you find it, please share. I canât find it as an ebook and in the bookstores it is running from $300-500.
Yes, I remember reading an article about that, concluding that literally every race horse finished its career before it would be considered wise to start that particular treatment option given the concerns around large bone remodeling
@LaurieB the one source I saw also referenced testing for that AND a stimulant. But it didnât say which jurisdiction was testing for what. For instance, itâs possible stimulant testing might be limited to AQHA or ones particular state/track.
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To add to whatâs already been said: about a decade ago, bisphosphonates were hailed as a wonder drug by the two year old consignors (whose horses breeze under tack before the sale). Theyâd found that bone issues healed much more quickly than usual when horses were given the drug, and within months, everyone who had a horse with a bone problem was trying it.
Then came the bad news. Although the horsesâ bones xrayed as perfectly healed, horses who had been given the drug began to break down at an alarming rate. Then it was discovered that although the healed bones looked solid on the surface, underneath they had the texture of honeycombâand would never stand up to training, even with extended time off.
Thatâs when the JC âoutlawedâ the drug and (hopefully) everyone stopped using it.
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I donât remember the part about a stimulant in relation to bisphosphonates, but as you know, stimulants of all kinds are already being tested for. You may be thinking of steroids which were also used in the early 2000s (both for racing and sales)? They are now also banned (although the horse isnât banned for life.)
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Or letâs say I gave my horse dorm to put his shoes on, or to clip him, etc. Thereâd be a record of me getting the dorm from the vet of course.
Or I bought my horse from someone who drugged it for a client at a show a month before I tried it. I donât want to get banned for life because of something I had no idea happened.
Also, I know that phenobarbital (not pentobarbital) is prescribed in pill form for dogs and cats to control epilepsy. Is it prescribed in horses at all?
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