USEF to test equine hair

[DMK]

It’s possible that USEF want to go after anyone who has used it, even if the horse is or isn’t a positive that day. Plus if it is short acting, maybe it needs to be dosed very close to the class (like most everyone here, I have no idea). If that’s the case, it’s pretty easy to avoid (not engage stupid autocorrect) testers unless you are the first class of the day. Word gets around, it’s not like everyone doesn’t know they are there. So no illegal drugs that day and the bad actors go back to business the next show.

If this is the case, I can see why regular testing methods won’t get the results needed to get at this problem…

[junesj68]

The euthanasia med USEF is referring to is pentobarbital, not phenobarbital. Maybe people use phenobarb as well, not sure. But pentobarb is not used in any way except for euthanasia and is quite a bit more controlled than phenobarb, so even more concerning if it’s in hair.

[DiamondJubilee]

Now that makes way more sense! Thank you.

[Ghazzu]

@junesj68

The euthanasia med USEF is referring to is pentobarbital, not phenobarbital. Maybe people use phenobarb as well, not sure. But pentobarb is not used in any way except for euthanasia and is quite a bit more controlled than phenobarb, so even more concerning if it’s in hair.

Pentobarbital is indeed the drug under discussion, and is only marketed in the US as a euthanasia drug.
Pentobarbital is used as part of anesthetic protocols in other countries, however.
I would not be surprised if the source of the drug is foreign.
Phenobarbital is used as an anti-seizure medication, but mainly in foals.

[findeight]

@DiamondJubilee

What vet would write a script for a horse that doesn’t show any symptoms of seizures? Is this a controlled substance in the US as well?

Unfortunately there is always a shady “Dr Feelgood” lurking nearby…in the past it has actually been show vets as well as banned show vets delivering the substance du jour to the showgrounds or supplying it to an accomplice. Remember the Carolina Gold and Kentucky Red days? About the same time as the great Pony Measuring fiasco that put so many really nice 13.3 and 14.3 “Ponies” out of well known barns into school strings and Pony classes at non rated shows still showing that voided measurement card if challenged, which it rarely was even asked for by whoever was running those shows. Nor was anything disclosed about busting the height limit as it was passed down to newer owners unaware of of the true history (and even name) of their new “Pony’ they got at such a reasonable price. Another reason for the chips becoming mandatory.

[cardinale]

@findeight

Another reason for the chips becoming mandatory.

Makes sense but…can chips be removed/replaced?

[findeight]

Yes but not easily and they would then have to rename and re register forfeiting any past show record plus it would still measure over. Course if it is a horse they could try to sneak it back into the Greens or something but not as easily as before the chips.

[2bayboys]

@findeight

@DiamondJubilee

What vet would write a script for a horse that doesn’t show any symptoms of seizures? Is this a controlled substance in the US as well?

Unfortunately there is always a shady “Dr Feelgood” lurking nearby…in the past it has actually been show vets as well as banned show vets delivering the substance du jour to the showgrounds or supplying it to an accomplice. Remember the Carolina Gold and Kentucky Red days? About the same time as the great Pony Measuring fiasco that put so many really nice 13.3 and 14.3 “Ponies” out of well known barns into school strings and Pony classes at non rated shows still showing that voided measurement card if challenged, which it rarely was even asked for by whoever was running those shows. Nor was anything disclosed about busting the height limit as it was passed down to newer owners unaware of of the true history (and even name) of their new “Pony’ they got at such a reasonable price. Another reason for the chips becoming mandatory.

I’ve heard of the Measuring Mayhem but please do give a more detailed explanation as I was not privy to the excitement.

[Limerick2017]

My daughter and I quote it all the time. I, too, checked it out of the library over and over. I have bought a couple of copies over the years. I think it is an incredibly well written book and applicable even today.

[findeight]

Some years ago (2005ish) IIRC, they did an unannounced measurement of all Ponies at a major Indoor show, Washington maybe. Some chaos ensued. There were some surprises and some not such a surprise. Some had to become the smallest Pony in a new division instead of one of the largest in the division they had competed in all year. Some ended up as Honies and hence ended up sold (with disclosure) as riding or school Ponies. Am sure some changed to another part of the country, changed names and continued as the tallest in their division at unrated shows.

Aware of a Large that measured over and was resold under a different name with a made up hogwash story of still being green and never shown rated. The buyers went to a rated show and had it measured, still over. That Pony was recognized and it ended up in a lawsuit with a ton of fingerpointing. Kind of doubt it was the only one.

[CBoylen]

The original measurement mayhem was a nightmare of people deliberately blowing rounds to avoid it. Trotting, circling, etc. WIHS 1990, they measured all ribbon winners.
The following competition year all ponies had to get a new card with the new measurement stick and some famous ones ended up in different divisions.

[DMK]

It takes a special kind of trainer to tell a kid who has busted their butt to get to WIHS, only to be told that if they really do well, they need to deliberately screw up…

[Amberley]

@findeight

Am sure some changed to another part of the country, changed names and continued as the tallest in their division at unrated shows.

Aka “local larges”. I still occasionally see ponies advertised as such.

[Go_Fish]

This reminds me of the people who scream about red light cameras and speed traps. If you’re not breaking the law (rules), you have nothing to worry about.

[dags]

@Amberley

Aka “local larges”. I still occasionally see ponies advertised as such.

To be fair, that is also used for ponies that simply don’t have the step and scope for the rated Larges. When the div was actually a solid 3’ + 12’ step I’d say a majority of the Large Greens you saw at PF never made it as true division ponies. Don’t know if the odds have improved with the slightly softer 2’9"-3’ height spec.

[findeight]

And that is why just testing the ribbon winners solves nothing, in fact it invites cheating to lose instead of preventing drugging to win. Shows do not have the vast revenues from gambling like the tracks have and cannot test every class at every show.

Speaking of tracks, upthread somebody was asking about a horse slipping and falling while being lunged and following the required fall protocol? At Saratoga yesterday a young racer acted the idiot in the paddock, slipped on the grass and fell on her side. There were no apparent injuries but because she landed on her side not on her hooves, it met the definition of a fall and she was scratched for the day and sent back to the barn for a vet evaluation which would be reviewed before she would be allowed to resume working. Period.

If the (often maligned) track can do it, we certainly should at least match their horse welfare standards. IMO.

[Hunterammy2020]

Ahh so you’re suspecting it’s not primarily being given to the bad actors by domestic vets but rather overseas sources? That would honestly make a lot of sense.

[Ghazzu]

@Hunterammy2020

Ahh so you’re suspecting it’s not primarily being given to the bad actors by domestic vets but rather overseas sources? That would honestly make a lot of sense.

no, I merely suspect that to be at least some of the sourcing.
Plenty of less than ethical DVMs in the country, sad to say.
Just look at what’s going on in Texas.

[RojoValentine]

The Monday Horses is one of my favorite books!

[kenyarider]

Except that at a large show they collect drug fees and have for years. I realize that those fees fund not only the actual initial gathering of urine/blood but the lab etc., but if it were done at every big show for all top four don’t you think that would result in, at least, some reduction in drugging? Our current system does not appear to be working so isn’t it worth a shot all the AA or “major” shows for a year or so so find out? Doing the same thing over and over is not working.