Why would that Junior rider continue riding for them? There are plenty of people who would grab her if she was available. Think of the message she could send if she was willing to walk. She should do it for her own safety if nothing else. But really…she is the one that should be concerned. What is her message saying to all of the other junior riders?
The horse should be suspended as well. If I was an owner and my valuable show horse was suspended due to drugs I would be furious!! I would be losing future earnings and the best way to hurt someone is in their pocketbook even if it is a never ending supply. The only way to enforce the drugging rules is to penalize EVERYONE involved with the horse from owner, trainer to rider. This way if you are in any way involved with a horse one would hope that the main concern - the HORSE - is taken care of in All ways. If the owner were penalized as well you can bet damn sure that their investment is CLEAN as well!
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ikr pepper1986? But in reality, all the owner can think is: “Kelley Farmer is showing my horse! I’m so lucky! How many zeros will I add!!!” And regarding the junior riders, all they are thinking is “I’m showing horses for Kelley Farmer! I’m so lucky!” ugh. ugh. ugh.
Her parents should be stepping in…for her safety if nothing else.
Shame on her too.
Shame on any owner that contributes to their bank account.
It is not like there aren’t plenty of options for trainers, horses etc.
I wish her horses would get banned just to give them a break. They are ultimately paying the price. Give the poor things a break for two years.
Maybe they should take a page from the Breeders Cup and suspend the horse, the trainer, and any other horses associated with that trainer from next year’s show as well.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/218955/breeders-cup-bans-ellis-masochistic-in-2017
Her parents should be stepping in…for her safety if nothing else.
Shame on her too.
Shame on any owner that contributes to their bank account.
It is not like there aren’t plenty of options for trainers, horses etc.
I wish her horses would get banned just to give them a break. They are ultimately paying the price. Give the poor things a break for two years.
[QUOTE=dia916;9006377]
People are saying Kelly and Larry can still sell horses for $. Suspending ALL USEF privileges would prevent that .[/QUOTE]
Depends. USEF couldn’t actually prevent them from selling horses, because USEF can’t (and shouldn’t!) regulate private business transactions. Its authority begins and ends with shows.
They might be able to make the horses a less attractive sale by preventing ownership transfers or not allowing the horse to show during the suspension or whatever… but they cannot actually prevent someone from conducting a normal, legal (allowed by state and national laws) business transaction on their own private property.
All Over Farm, yes, Bibby was set down in 2014 for use of GABA.
Dia, not really. If Larry and/or Kelley go to Euro and buy a bunch of prospects, they can make them up at their farm and sell them. Until the beast is actually recorded with USEF, they have no idea what’s going on.
Yup Dana.
Is anyone else highly amused that the horse’s name was Unexpected?
[QUOTE=findeight;9005372]
Got set down longer then that last time, didn’t seem to deter him, she’s had a couple of vacays. Not first timers. They won’t be far.
,[/QUOTE]
Are you saying that Larry has been set down longer than two years in the past, or Kelley was set down longer than a year? I don’t recall that, so I would be interested in hearing more about these claims.
I agree with vxf111 regarding the fine - I wouldn’t be so sure that these people have millions of dollars sitting around in cash such that a $24,000 fine won’t hurt at least a little bit. Keeping horses costs a LOT of money, and keeping them at two facilities in two different states is no simple matter. They won’t close up shop, but I don’t believe that they are blowing off these sanctions as though they are nothing. It is a shame that this probably won’t hurt their business in the long run.
Pretty inappropriate to bring a junior into this discussion. I suspect you wouldn’t want a child you know objectified in this manner. Say what you want about the adults, but best to leave the kids out of it.
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He did get caught, but only fined this time - offense was for cetirizine (Zertec). His fine was doubled because of previous bad acts. These guys are just NOT going to stop until they are set down for life.
Given that the horses apparently can’t go well even for Kelley without the help of a needle, it would seem pretty foolhardy to buy one from them.
Things are changing and every few years, we will need to reevaluate appropriate penalties. In the past, preventing transfers wasn’t really possible on a practical level, because the horse would just appear with a new name and a fresh recording, not something any of us want. With microchips, the options for making a horse, or restricting transfers, as part of the suspension become… more practical.
I think rather than preventing an ownership change, I’d like the committee to consider invalidating all points for that horse for that show year… ie, you’re caught and your HOTY award eligibility is gone. I think suspending the horse briefly for a time after the infraction should be an option - possibly less time than the humans - but a horse that’s been egregiously and inappropriately medicated maybe should be presumed impaired for a couple of months after the positive test.
I support giving the committee some latitude and some additional tools in their toolbox to fit to the situation as it warrants.
You’re right Soaponarope (by the way love the name) all the owner of said horse is seeing is the 000’s that are on the prize checks or the value of the horse increasing because Kelley Farmer rode said horse or that Larry trained said horse. But without the horse there wouldn’t be a debate at issue now. The horse is the center of the issue and what’s most important. The owner should care that the horse is in a well qualified, loving environment and if being shown is competing DRUG FREE and is successful drug free as well.
As far as whether the horse is being ridden by a junior or a professional rider the rider should give up the ride unless the horse is placed into another professional barn where the environment is drug free. Unfortunately, this more than likely wouldn’t happen because the rider doesn’t want to lose the ride and is afraid if they say something their reputation would be harmed where as they might find out that they would show that they are a more compassionate horseman when they put the horse first. Because after all the horse, let’s say it all together now, is the most important ONE at issue here!! It’s health and well being and without the horse this discuss would be a moot point!
The USEF has proven and started off the year on a positive note and let’s hope they continue it. The only reason this has brought forth so much discussion is that the first ones punished harshly (not as harshly as they should be but it’s a step in the right direction) just so happen to be such a well known rider and trainer. If it was just Amy Ammy it might’ve slipped right on by. On another sad note, it has been pointed out before ie… the Colvin suit, there was all this uproar and all the pages and pages of anger on another COTH thread for a number of weeks and as Victoria Colvin stated in an interview that life hadn’t changed and continued on as normal, this to will die down and the world of showing and individuals still drugging and trying to come up with the right cocktail will continue. Unless the USEF continues to test and not let trainers like Glefke (was stated earlier that he refused testers in 2015) get away with not allowing the horses to be tested than all of this will be for nothing!! Another poster stated that if people wouldn’t use these individuals whether they’re buying/selling, riding/training and instead of applauding when they enter the ring boo then these individuals will not feel the full brunt of their penalty. If you’re penalized for violating the rules then you should be penalized in every way that your association with the USEF entails - showing, buying/selling, riding/training and/or breeding. And last but not least once again the penalty should also be applied to the horse and therefor whether the horse is shown or sold then anything that benefits the horse shouldn’t be allowed until after the suspension is over.
You’re right Soaponarope (by the way love the name) all the owner of said horse is seeing is the 000’s that are on the prize checks or the value of the horse increasing because Kelley Farmer rode said horse or that Larry trained said horse. But without the horse there wouldn’t be a debate at issue now. The horse is the center of the issue and what’s most important. The owner should care that the horse is in a well qualified, loving environment and if being shown is competing DRUG FREE and is successful drug free as well.
As far as whether the horse is being ridden by a junior or a professional rider the rider should give up the ride unless the horse is placed into another professional barn where the environment is drug free. Unfortunately, this more than likely wouldn’t happen because the rider doesn’t want to lose the ride and is afraid if they say something their reputation would be harmed where as they might find out that they would show that they are a more compassionate horseman when they put the horse first. Because after all the horse, let’s say it all together now, is the most important ONE at issue here!! It’s health and well being and without the horse this discuss would be a moot point!
The USEF has proven and started off the year on a positive note and let’s hope they continue it. The only reason this has brought forth so much discussion is that the first ones punished harshly (not as harshly as they should be but it’s a step in the right direction) just so happen to be such a well known rider and trainer. If it was just Amy Ammy it might’ve slipped right on by. On another sad note, it has been pointed out before ie… the Colvin suit, there was all this uproar and all the pages and pages of anger on another COTH thread for a number of weeks and as Victoria Colvin stated in an interview that life hadn’t changed and continued on as normal, this to will die down and the world of showing and individuals still drugging and trying to come up with the right cocktail will continue. Unless the USEF continues to test and not let trainers like Glefke (was stated earlier that he refused testers in 2015) get away with not allowing the horses to be tested than all of this will be for nothing!! Another poster stated that if people wouldn’t use these individuals whether they’re buying/selling, riding/training and instead of applauding when they enter the ring boo then these individuals will not feel the full brunt of their penalty. If you’re penalized for violating the rules then you should be penalized in every way that your association with the USEF entails - showing, buying/selling, riding/training and/or breeding. And last but not least once again the penalty should also be applied to the horse and therefor whether the horse is shown or sold then anything that benefits the horse shouldn’t be allowed until after the suspension is over.
Great idea!
[QUOTE=poltroon;9006657]
I think rather than preventing an ownership change, I’d like the committee to consider invalidating all points for that horse for that show year… ie, you’re caught and your HOTY award eligibility is gone. I think suspending the horse briefly for a time after the infraction should be an option - possibly less time than the humans - but a horse that’s been egregiously and inappropriately medicated maybe should be presumed impaired for a couple of months after the positive test.
I support giving the committee some latitude and some additional tools in their toolbox to fit to the situation as it warrants.[/QUOTE]
Such a great idea! Points zap. Money to be returned. Given Glefke’s repeat offense–he’s been set down/fined over Ace and Reserpine previously–we also need a suspended for life sentence. Hell, Barney Ward did terrible things and he was banned forever. I always wonder why Humane Society or PETA or similar don’t get involved here? The doping is also abusive, not just cheating.
Be very, very, very careful what you wish for when you think you want PETA or the like to take an interest in horse sports.
My idea wasn’t that the wins and prizes from the rest of the year be invalidated, only the points, which would affect HOTY and come to think of it, eligibility for indoors.
