Just think how much easier it would be for your barn worker if you didn’t feed or water your horses - no poop, no urine!:lol:
[QUOTE=NBChoice;7768678]
You’re kidding… right?[/QUOTE]
HA…I JUST CHOKED ON MY COFFEE…HERES THE SAME ANSWER… REALLY???
think about what you just said. I will definately address your turn out concern…I have mostly thoroubreds here and some ponies…everyone is out 24/7 ,except they all get brought in for bad weather…3 that do better with access to their stalls, get it. So those 3 go INTO the stall to pee/poop, stand behind fan,whatever makes them happy…WHY,…because they CAN. It keeps them happy,which keeps them healthy. This is a horse farm. Its ALL ABOUT THE HORSES HERE…its their world, we live in it 
current help wants to SHUT stall doors.This then makes 3 pissy mares…piss in the aisle , IN FRONT OF THEIR STALL.
If you think a dirty stall is gross, walk into an aisle thats that’s been pee’ed in.BEYOND DISGUSTING.I SHOULDnt REALLY, have to explain anymore. Horse farm=barn=stalls. Some people dont care…
when you walk in my barn, 1) you can breathe, 2)you don’t eat flies
3) the horses & people are happy. I told the helper to consider the “Big pissy mare”, JOB SECURITY ,ha.
one more thing, this “rant” was inspired by yesterdays question…but I have picked several “items of discussion”…courteous of several different workers throughout the years :)…helps BUILD a solid RANT ;D
Okay, I’m glad you posted the last post. Just to give the other side, I tried working for an english barn and to say it was strange, is an understatement.
Even though things had been spelled out in the first place, when I was actually doing what had been spelled out (put X scoops of supps in X feed, mix well and put in feeder), it was not right and never good enough. Many situations, too many to tell here but it was same song, second verse quite a bit.
Then, the “free” lessons. I grew up western and this was an english barn, hunt seat. I mounted up and found out I must have never ridden at all in my entire life (I used to have quite a show record with some notable wins). Then, after dismounting, I took the reins over the horse head and leading him back. All I know, all of a sudden, she is shrieking at me about something. I looked behind me because I thought the hounds of h*ll might have been about to attack. Nope, it was I should have left the reins over the neck and led the horse that way. Never said a word beforehand.
I could go ON and ON. After three weeks, I gave up and quit. Then she tried to extort money from me and even did so on a public horse board. Someones’ mother was a Federal Judge and called her on it. Threatened to sue me and I threatened Discovery right back. Shut her up.
So, my point there is two sides to every story but after you 'splained the last time, makes more sense.
[QUOTE=goneriding24;7769115]
Okay, I’m glad you posted the last post. Just to give the other side, I tried working for an english barn and to say it was strange, is an understatement.
Even though things had been spelled out in the first place, when I was actually doing what had been spelled out (put X scoops of supps in X feed, mix well and put in feeder), it was not right and never good enough. Many situations, too many to tell here but it was same song, second verse quite a bit.
Then, the “free” lessons. I grew up western and this was an english barn, hunt seat. I mounted up and found out I must have never ridden at all in my entire life (I used to have quite a show record with some notable wins). Then, after dismounting, I took the reins over the horse head and leading him back. All I know, all of a sudden, she is shrieking at me about something. I looked behind me because I thought the hounds of h*ll might have been about to attack. Nope, it was I should have left the reins over the neck and led the horse that way. Never said a word beforehand.
I could go ON and ON. After three weeks, I gave up and quit. Then she tried to extort money from me and even did so on a public horse board. Someones’ mother was a Federal Judge and called her on it. Threatened to sue me and I threatened Discovery right back. Shut her up.
So, my point there is two sides to every story but after you 'splained the last time, makes more sense.[/QUOTE]
I just want you to know, THAT YOU WERE CORRECT TO TAKE THE REINS OVER THE HORSES HEAD TO LEAD!..I don’t care what discipline ,ALWAYS take the reins over the horses head when leading on the ground. Hope that makes you feel better after all this time 
I could have written this post word for word. Its nice to know its not just me.
My current help gave me notice and I can’t wait for her to go.
I have help to make life easier. It’s really annoying when they make life harder.
I’m seriously debating if I’m going to hire someone new.
[QUOTE=gray17htb;7769141]
I just want you to know, THAT YOU WERE CORRECT TO TAKE THE REINS OVER THE HORSES HEAD TO LEAD!..I don’t care what discipline ,ALWAYS take the reins over the horses head when leading on the ground. Hope that makes you feel better after all this time :)[/QUOTE]
Yes, it does. Thank you.
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7769006]
I spent a few years doing barn work to pay for lessons. Let me just say that I am happy to write that check to my BO and appreciate all their hard work having myself been there and done that.
Paula[/QUOTE]
I spent one winter (when dog grooming was slow) feeding and cleaning a 50 horse barn on weekends. Paid board for DH and my horses, gave the weekday man the time off to visit his family that lived 40 miles away. It was HARD work, very little positive input from either the BO or other boarders. Sure gave me an appreciation for Francisco’s weekly work. At the time, I was about 35 - Francisco was 60…
[QUOTE=gray17htb;7769141]
I just want you to know, THAT YOU WERE CORRECT TO TAKE THE REINS OVER THE HORSES HEAD TO LEAD!..I don’t care what discipline ,ALWAYS take the reins over the horses head when leading on the ground. Hope that makes you feel better after all this time :)[/QUOTE]
I have never actually seen someone not bring the reins over unless it was a case of a ground helper stepping in quickly with a notice rider and then going away again. (I.e. Helping to get stubborn pony away from tasty plant, as kid is competent to steer but not strong enough for pony to not just ignore. Pony gotten away from plant, kid resumes being in charge and keeps better eye out for tasty plants in future.)
Do people do that? Is it a regional thing? Anyone?
(I lead by the reins with two hands, usually. One where it needs to be for control, the other holding the excess so no one trips or puts a foot through it.)
I feel you OP. At the barn I manage, the “powers that be” won’t let anyone work more than 15-20 hours per week. So I have a lot of part time staff members = a lot of hiring = a lot of managing. It can be crazy.
I will say that I’ve changed the way I interview, and that seems to help. First, I start with a 10 minute phone interview. This saves me time, and allows me to weed out a lot of people. I basically try to discourage them from the job. “There is a LOT of stall mucking.” (10-15 stalls) “Shifts often run late without warning.” “It can be really lonely here.” “You’re doing the same thing day after day.” “You will rarely interact with the horses and don’t get to ride.” Etc.
I also ask some important questions like “Most of the time you’ll be working alone, can you tell me about a time or job you had to work with very little supervision?” And “Horses need care 365 days per year. We do the same job regardless if it’s 100 or -40. Have you ever had a job where you had to work outside in extreme weather?” Basically, I’m gauging their work ethic more than their horse skills. I can teach horse skills.
If they pass that, they come in for a 1 hour interview which includes a tour of the property, leading a horse from a stall to a paddock, and mucking 2 stalls. We muck together and chit chat, but at the end I grade their stall and make them finish it to my expectations. Then I say, “ok, you just did 2 stalls, during every shift you’re going to finish this whole barn. That’s what you do every day. How do you feel about that?” Before they leave, I leave them with something like, “Thanks so much for coming by. I’m finishing the interview process this week and I will send you an email on X day either way. I know this is a very challenging job and I expect a lot out of my staff, so please take that time to decide if this would be a good fit for you.”
I always extend the offer via email. It allows them to turn it down if they want. I would rather them turn it down now than decide they dislike it later.
During training, I work alongside them for one week. The first day is basically “keep up with me” so they can see the pace I work at. Second week, I pop in and out supervising but get them used to working on their own. I time their stalls. They won’t be as fast as I want them, but I am very clear that within a month, this is the speed I want them at. The third week they work on their own with me around to answer questions. I set the expectations from the get go.
THEN, once I have a good staff member, I’ll do almost anything to keep them. They need to bring their kid in the summer? Sure, as long as they’ve signed a release and stay out of trouble. Want to gab for 10 minutes about their weekend? Yeah, I’ll drop what I’m doing to chat reluctantly. Want to come in an hour later instead? Sure, as long as everything is done on time. It’s a tough job, and the more accommodating I can be, the better. And my staff generally to return the favor as often as possible.
Sorry that got so long. It IS possible to find good employees.
[QUOTE=Wonders12;7769530]
I feel you OP. At the barn I manage, the “powers that be” won’t let anyone work more than 15-20 hours per week. So I have a lot of part time staff members = a lot of hiring = a lot of managing. It can be crazy.
I will say that I’ve changed the way I interview, and that seems to help. First, I start with a 10 minute phone interview. This saves me time, and allows me to weed out a lot of people. I basically try to discourage them from the job. “There is a LOT of stall mucking.” (10-15 stalls) “Shifts often run late without warning.” “It can be really lonely here.” “You’re doing the same thing day after day.” “You will rarely interact with the horses and don’t get to ride.” Etc.
I also ask some important questions like “Most of the time you’ll be working alone, can you tell me about a time or job you had to work with very little supervision?” And “Horses need care 365 days per year. We do the same job regardless if it’s 100 or -40. Have you ever had a job where you had to work outside in extreme weather?” Basically, I’m gauging their work ethic more than their horse skills. I can teach horse skills.
If they pass that, they come in for a 1 hour interview which includes a tour of the property, leading a horse from a stall to a paddock, and mucking 2 stalls. We muck together and chit chat, but at the end I grade their stall and make them finish it to my expectations. Then I say, “ok, you just did 2 stalls, during every shift you’re going to finish this whole barn. That’s what you do every day. How do you feel about that?” Before they leave, I leave them with something like, “Thanks so much for coming by. I’m finishing the interview process this week and I will send you an email on X day either way. I know this is a very challenging job and I expect a lot out of my staff, so please take that time to decide if this would be a good fit for you.”
I always extend the offer via email. It allows them to turn it down if they want. I would rather them turn it down now than decide they dislike it later.
During training, I work alongside them for one week. The first day is basically “keep up with me” so they can see the pace I work at. Second week, I pop in and out supervising but get them used to working on their own. I time their stalls. They won’t be as fast as I want them, but I am very clear that within a month, this is the speed I want them at. The third week they work on their own with me around to answer questions. I set the expectations from the get go.
THEN, once I have a good staff member, I’ll do almost anything to keep them. They need to bring their kid in the summer? Sure, as long as they’ve signed a release and stay out of trouble. Want to gab for 10 minutes about their weekend? Yeah, I’ll drop what I’m doing to chat reluctantly. Want to come in an hour later instead? Sure, as long as everything is done on time. It’s a tough job, and the more accommodating I can be, the better. And my staff generally to return the favor as often as possible.
Sorry that got so long. It IS possible to find good employees.[/QUOTE]
Where are you finding these good people?
I manage a 25 horse farm (and do nearly all the daily care by myself!!) and I just put in my notice last month so I could pursue riding endeavors. I am working with the BO to find a replacement and I am very particular because I happen to be an efficient and good worker - so far, everyone that has come for an interview has failed my standards with spectacular aplomb… and I am not a hard nosed person!!!
Hiring can be SO aggravating! Half the time they ask me questions that I already gave them answers to. I have done the same, tried to weed out the unambitious by explaining to them it is a HARD, LONG job (lots of stalls, lots of time alone, long days 10-15hr days depending on the day, outside in all conditions, etc) and then they come in and act surprised when I tell them they’re expected to be here every day even in -10 degree weather? :mad:
Wonder12, great post. It made me realize that the problems I have had hiring good help have, in part, been my fault.
Though I felt that I have always been clear and fair about the demands of the job, I have not been hands on enough in the early days and not clear enough about my true expectations. Unfairly expecting a certain speed and level of work without making it crystal clear what I expected.
I am a good boss. Not prone to crazy inconsistency. I pay a fair wage and allow plenty of time to get the required work done. I’m very flexible about time, days and personal matters. I will always acknowledge a job well done.
What I need to learn to do is acknowledge a job NOT well done. And I need to do this early before it becomes a set habit.
I will try and replace my help and I will keep your words in mind when I do it.
Thank you.
After 20+ years of putting the reins over for leading, I’ve now started leaving them on the neck. Less chance of the horse stepping into them if the horse gets away.
I was leading my guy into the ring one day, reins over the head, one hand under the chin and the other hand holding the excess (totally textbook!) and he just bolted and pulled away from me, ran all around the ring like an idiot, and then came to a stop with the reins hooked around his hind fetlock. He couldn’t even lift his head - he was practically folded in half. That was at the absolute opposite end of the arena from where I was standing… and it was a LONG walk for me to get to him. He actually stood there and waited and let me approach and unbuckle the reins to rescue him.
Now I figure, I’d rather the reins be on the neck, if the horse gets away and is bolting around wildly.
I board two horses for a friend and her daughter. Daughter is in college and commutes but comes once a week to clean stalls. I let her choose the day since she is in college and also works part time. I texted her one day to ask what day she was cleaning stalls. She texted back that she needed to check the weather to see if it was going to pour rain. If so, she would clean stalls the next day when it was not raining. I text back “So if it’s pouring I have to clean stalls in the rain?” I got back “LOL I dunno” That didn’t happen again. I think she got the point.
[QUOTE=partlycloudy;7768861]
I’ve given up hiring help…more trouble than they are worth. Will be mucking stalls til I retire or die I guess.[/QUOTE]
Same here.
My favorite are the people who contact me saying they want to work off board, but they want to be paid at a much higher rate for their labor than I am being paid via my board rate. Ex: One “potential worker” wanted $5/stall per day to clean. If I charged $5/stall per day for cleaning, my board rate would be $125+ higher a month. And my current board rate is in line with other facilities in my area.
Lessons after trying multiple “workers”? 1. No one wants to work in the winter in NYS. Period. 2. No one wants to do the true physical labor (mucking pastures, scrubbing buckets and troughs, etc.)…everyone wants to “feed and turnout horses”. 3. No one thinks twice about not showing up with no notice, even though these are living creatures. 4. Everyone thinks their (unskilled) labor is worth at least three times as much as I can reasonably charge for in my board rate.
We simply stay small and do it ourselves. I feel your pain, OP.
Thank you for an awesome post! Thank you for taking the time to be detailed. Almost anyone (any job) can learn something from this. many thumbs up.
[QUOTE=Wonders12;7769530]
I feel you OP. At the barn I manage, the “powers that be” won’t let anyone work more than 15-20 hours per week. So I have a lot of part time staff members = a lot of hiring = a lot of managing. It can be crazy.
I will say that I’ve changed the way I interview, and that seems to help. First, I start with a 10 minute phone interview. This saves me time, and allows me to weed out a lot of people. I basically try to discourage them from the job. “There is a LOT of stall mucking.” (10-15 stalls) “Shifts often run late without warning.” “It can be really lonely here.” “You’re doing the same thing day after day.” “You will rarely interact with the horses and don’t get to ride.” Etc.
I also ask some important questions like “Most of the time you’ll be working alone, can you tell me about a time or job you had to work with very little supervision?” And “Horses need care 365 days per year. We do the same job regardless if it’s 100 or -40. Have you ever had a job where you had to work outside in extreme weather?” Basically, I’m gauging their work ethic more than their horse skills. I can teach horse skills.
If they pass that, they come in for a 1 hour interview which includes a tour of the property, leading a horse from a stall to a paddock, and mucking 2 stalls. We muck together and chit chat, but at the end I grade their stall and make them finish it to my expectations. Then I say, “ok, you just did 2 stalls, during every shift you’re going to finish this whole barn. That’s what you do every day. How do you feel about that?” Before they leave, I leave them with something like, “Thanks so much for coming by. I’m finishing the interview process this week and I will send you an email on X day either way. I know this is a very challenging job and I expect a lot out of my staff, so please take that time to decide if this would be a good fit for you.”
I always extend the offer via email. It allows them to turn it down if they want. I would rather them turn it down now than decide they dislike it later.
During training, I work alongside them for one week. The first day is basically “keep up with me” so they can see the pace I work at. Second week, I pop in and out supervising but get them used to working on their own. I time their stalls. They won’t be as fast as I want them, but I am very clear that within a month, this is the speed I want them at. The third week they work on their own with me around to answer questions. I set the expectations from the get go.
THEN, once I have a good staff member, I’ll do almost anything to keep them. They need to bring their kid in the summer? Sure, as long as they’ve signed a release and stay out of trouble. Want to gab for 10 minutes about their weekend? Yeah, I’ll drop what I’m doing to chat reluctantly. Want to come in an hour later instead? Sure, as long as everything is done on time. It’s a tough job, and the more accommodating I can be, the better. And my staff generally to return the favor as often as possible.
Sorry that got so long. It IS possible to find good employees.[/QUOTE]
Great post with great information.
duplicate
I’m glad to hear there is some logical reason for this (not just wacko “English” BO) because I think most of the time you have more control with reins over the head.
So many different experiences. Never an excuse for screaming.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;7769581]
After 20+ years of putting the reins over for leading, I’ve now started leaving them on the neck. Less chance of the horse stepping into them if the horse gets away.
I was leading my guy into the ring one day, reins over the head, one hand under the chin and the other hand holding the excess (totally textbook!) and he just bolted and pulled away from me, ran all around the ring like an idiot, and then came to a stop with the reins hooked around his hind fetlock. He couldn’t even lift his head - he was practically folded in half. That was at the absolute opposite end of the arena from where I was standing… and it was a LONG walk for me to get to him. He actually stood there and waited and let me approach and unbuckle the reins to rescue him.
Now I figure, I’d rather the reins be on the neck, if the horse gets away and is bolting around wildly.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=beowulf;7769544]
Where are you finding these good people?[/QUOTE]
Everywhere. Universities, community and tech colleges, craigslist, facebook, word of mouth. But the hiring is still aggravating. I’ll go through 20-30 applications for one good person. I’ve been doing the job of 3 staff members + BM for he last 6 weeks because my current pool is just no good. (I think I finally found them though.)
That’s why the keeping them part is so important. If it’s -10, I expect them to be there, but I’ll also be there mucking right next to them so they can go home early. There isn’t a single job on the property that I won’t do and my staff not only know that, but regularly see me doing it. My goal is to work part of a shift with each person at least once a month, just to check in. With 15 (:eek: really) people on payroll, that doesn’t always happen. But I am out and about.
Now hiring another manager? Someone to work those 15+ hour days that I do? I don’t think I could encourage anyone to do that! :lol: Honestly though, that’s much harder IMO. Good luck.
OP, as I read your post I had to wonder if you were MY barn owner, because the girl hired to do the stalls where I board at sounds exactly like your employee. When I first moved there I had a mare who was diagnosed with navicular and was only boarded there for a few months before I found her a better retirement facility and after she left, I bought a young TB gelding. This girl actually had the nerve to tell me she wished my mare was still there because my gelding is “too messy”. Um, yes, I wish she didn’t have navicular either, but solely so it makes your job easier. No.
This girl has 15 stalls to do and sometimes comes in the morning and sometimes not until late in the afternoon. She brings her dog and even sometimes brings her 4 year old who she then asks boarders to “watch for a minute” while she drives the tractor to get more bedding or dump manure. She stands there and talks about how awful it is to do this kind of work, how the evening feed person gives too much hay and the horses make a mess of it, and of course, how messy my horse is. She’ll close the stall doors of the horses who have stall guards and even turn off the stall fans and then forget to reopen stall doors or turn fans back on. She’s paid for it in addition to having FREE stall board for TWO horses. It takes her about 2 hours to do the work and she only works M-F.
I can not for the life of me understand how she still has the job, other than she is the best friend of the BO’s daughter. If you accept a job, do the best you can. If you are unable to do that, it’s time to move on and open the position up for someone who will appreciate HAVING a job. Good luck to you!
[QUOTE=saultgirl;7769581]
After 20+ years of putting the reins over for leading, I’ve now started leaving them on the neck. Less chance of the horse stepping into them if the horse gets away.
I was leading my guy into the ring one day, reins over the head, one hand under the chin and the other hand holding the excess (totally textbook!) and he just bolted and pulled away from me, ran all around the ring like an idiot, and then came to a stop with the reins hooked around his hind fetlock. He couldn’t even lift his head - he was practically folded in half. That was at the absolute opposite end of the arena from where I was standing… and it was a LONG walk for me to get to him. He actually stood there and waited and let me approach and unbuckle the reins to rescue him.
Now I figure, I’d rather the reins be on the neck, if the horse gets away and is bolting around wildly.[/QUOTE]
That does restrict how far you can get from the horse without letting go, though. Hm. I think if I planned to lead without the reins over the head, I’d want a lead rope? Though not sure the best way to clip it to the bridle.
I know that is why one place I go in the summer now leads ponies only in halters instead of bridle and reins like they used to. Less risk, and for pony rides the kids don’t really need the reins anyway, or care they don’t have them.
