V6 Engine - safe to pull with?

[TackHunter]

I think I might be able to help you with this, because I’m currently in the same predicament.

One thing that surprised me is that even though your truck may be rated to tow 10k lbs, that is not the same as the gross combined weight rating. When your manufacturer rates a truck for towing, they do so under the assumption that there will be a very small payload (i.e. 1 passenger, no tack, no equipment) on board the truck.

For example:

• truck has 8k lbs towing capacity
• truck has 2k payload capacity

you may think: “ok, 2 passengers plus tack and whatever in the truck bed = 1500lbs. then 2 horses + trailer + hay + water = 8k lbs” this seems under the payload & towing limits right? Well it could very well be the case that your gross combined vehicle rating is actually lower than the individual payload and towing ratings added together. This is presumably because the towing performance will decrease as your payload increases.

So what I would suggest doing is adding up the gross weight of the fully loaded trailer. Then add up the total weight of the payload on your truck. Finally add in the total truck weight. Then refer to your manufacturers tow ratings and see if you fall under the gross combined weight rating. If you fall under this weight rating (while also staying under weight in the payload & towing capacity ratings) you should be fine.

[Florida_Gator]

My husband and I both tow with the F150 Ecoboost/Twin Turbo. His is a 2011 and mine is a 2013, both have the longer wheelbase and quad cab.

I have a 3 horse Goosneck, steel frame with aluminum skin. It has its own brakes so I don’t have to burn up the brakes on my truck. My truck is also my daily driver. Hauls fully loaded like a dream, but I live in Florida where the terrain is flat. Not sure I’d want to pull it all over hill country loaded down. I’ve hauled a bumper pull with my husband’s truck once and it did fine but I only had two TBs and minimal tack in tow. My husband tows our mid-size tractor on a Goosneck trailer and it also hauls great. I’m a big fan of this truck, but you have to make sure you’re getting the right engine, it makes a huge difference.

[TackHunter]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8866872]
Ford lists their v6 f150s with a towing capacity of half that.[/QUOTE]

Modern f150s can vary dramatically with respect to towing capacity. Wheelbase, engine, and rear axle ratio can all affect towing capacity.

I can get a 2016 f150 with a 5000lbs tow capacity all the way up to one with a 12000lbs tow capacity. So if you properly equip it, 10k lbs sounds more than reasonable to me

[TPF_Hunter]

Ecoboost!

Thanks for all of the replies. I need to correct my initial post and got confused saying which truck we were looking at. He was looking at the New 3.5L Eco-boost F-150 V6 and said the “towing rating was fine”. The 3.7 liter was another truck he had looked at previous so my apologies for the mix up.

Looking at Ford’s towing ratings (link provided) for the truck we are looking at (Supercrew most likely), it says anywhere from 10,000 - 12,000 pounds. Which is higher than the V-8’s towing rating. Knowing that - would you haul a 2 horse trailer and two horses in it? Would be mostly local miles or up to a 2.5 hour haul at most.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/towing/

To answer one person’s question - I am very much so not new to the scene. I am used to hauling with a F250 or a F350 dually but neither of those trucks are available to be used anymore. They belonged to family members that decided to sell, which is why we are looking to purchase a daily driver that could also haul on occasion.

[NoSuchPerson]

I have a friend who bought an SUV with the 6 cylinder Eco-Boost for hauling his boat. He said that the Ford people insisted that the Eco-Boost added enough power that it had the same towing capacity as an 8 cylinder without Eco-Boost.

He hasn’t had any towing issues that I’m aware of, but yes, I know, a boat is not a horse trailer.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=TPF Hunter;8868256]
Thanks for all of the replies. I need to correct my initial post and got confused saying which truck we were looking at. He was looking at the New 3.5L Eco-boost F-150 V6 and said the “towing rating was fine”. The 3.7 liter was another truck he had looked at previous so my apologies for the mix up.

Looking at Ford’s towing ratings (link provided) for the truck we are looking at (Supercrew most likely), it says anywhere from 10,000 - 12,000 pounds. Which is higher than the V-8’s towing rating. Knowing that - would you haul a 2 horse trailer and two horses in it? Would be mostly local miles or up to a 2.5 hour haul at most.

http://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/specifications/towing/

To answer one person’s question - I am very much so not new to the scene. I am used to hauling with a F250 or a F350 dually but neither of those trucks are available to be used anymore. They belonged to family members that decided to sell, which is why we are looking to purchase a daily driver that could also haul on occasion.[/QUOTE]

The “tow rating” for any given pickup is pure, unadulterated, night soil, bovine, male!!!

It’s a number from Marketing, not Engineering.

The ONLY number that counts when discussing towing is the GCVWR (also known as the GCWR). This number is the MAXIMUM that the truck and tow can weigh in tandem.

I just put this in another thread on the same subject. I’ll repeat it here for convenience:

You’ve got to weigh the truck. Find a local truck stop with CAT scale and that will cost you in the area of $25.

Let’s say the truck comes in at 6000 pounds. That means:

12,100 [GCVWR for the vehicle in question] - 6000 = 6100

Your real towing capacity is 6100 lbs.

6100 - 3900 [weight of trailer being discussed] = 2200 lbs.

That’s your “useful load.”

The GCWR is calculated by the engineers for a “dead” load like a boat or a load of hay or a travel trailer. Horses and liquids are “live” loads in that they can, and do, move around. If you load to the maximum you have no “J” factor. If something goes wrong you’ll be at the end of your “operating envelope” and that might mean bad things happen.

You find the GCVWR/GCWR in the Owner’s Manual (or sometimes on the driver’s door post). This is the LEGAL limit that you can have with truck and trailer. It may be larger than the practical limit you should have.

The short answer is that it’s highly unlikely that this truck would be suitable for pulling even a Brenderup with one horse.

But tell your DH to keep in mind the First Rule of Towing Anything: Starting Is Optional; Stopping Is Not. So it’s not the engine and drive train that are critical, it’s the braking system.

Your money, your horse, your butt, your choice.

G.

*In the original thread numbers for the truck and trailer had been already discussed; italicized explanation provided since that context is not clear from my response.

[tangledweb]

@Guilherme;8868302

[B]The “tow rating” for any given pickup blah blah

You are deliberately trying to make it sound difficult and scary. It definitely can be a problem if you are trying to take 4 people and a week’s gear and are close to the limit in a normal week, but you are making up numbers.

If you redo the sums with the truck’s real GCWR of over 17K and real weight of under 5K you end up with plenty of capacity for an 8K trailer.

[candyappy]

Never in a million years would I tow horses ( or anything heavy) with a V6 engine.

Find a good used truck to pull with and buy a good used car to drive ( if money is the issue).

If you pull enough you are going to find yourself in a situation where you find a V6 is nowhere near enough power.

[asterix]

I don’t think Guilherme is trying to make it sound difficult and scary - that is math that lots of folks don’t even know to do.
I know someone who bought a new, large truck to tow her new, large gooseneck trailer. Towing capacity well within what Ford said. Then she weighed everything, and had to trade the truck in for the next bigger truck because her setup exceeded the GCWR when fully loaded with 3 horses.
No idea what the numbers are here, but that is an exercise worth doing.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=tangledweb;8868332]
You are deliberately trying to make it sound difficult and scary. It definitely can be a problem if you are trying to take 4 people and a week’s gear and are close to the limit in a normal week, but you are making up numbers.

If you redo the sums with the truck’s real GCWR of over 17K and real weight of under 5K you end up with plenty of capacity for an 8K trailer.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me, but I’m making it realistic and safe for horse and driver and general public!!!

I didn’t make up anything except the presumed weight of a truck as I didn’t, and don’t, know the actual weight of said truck!!! I do know the GCWR of that truck as the OP in the post from which I transferred the information told us what it was! And they also gave the weight of their trailer! How am I making anything up? The world wonders.

I’m talking about one, specific truck and given a simple and clear example of how you figure out if you’re legal or not. I noted, specifically, that legal does not always mean smart. You’ve pulled different numbers from somewhere else with no explanation and then tell me I’m “making stuff up.” To which I say, “banana oil.”

How about you do the math like I did with real numbers where they are available and probable numbers where they are not, but those probable numbers clearly identified?

G.

[tangledweb]

@Guilherme;8868552

How about you do the math like I did with real numbers where they are available and probable numbers where they are not, but those probable numbers clearly identified?

See https://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/16rv&tt_ford_f150_r2_oct23.pdf

OP is talking about a new F-150 with the 3.5 ecoboost. Presumably if they are buying it to tow they will get one of the better axle ratios so GVWR can be 17100.

OP is guessing a trailer weighing 4000-5000

Does not matter if we use my guess of 5000 or your guess of 6000 for truck weight. That’s still a “useful load” (to use your term) of at least 6100.

[DMK]

actually, I thought 2016 or 2017 is the year the auto industry was moving to standard criteria for tow weight? There’s been several articles on it. So while it might be a made up number, it should be a number you can reliably compare to a known entity such as an F250.

The short answer is that it’s highly unlikely that this truck would be suitable for pulling even a Brenderup with one horse.

Actually the truck in question has a GCWR of 15,500lbs, so I’m thinking a brenderup will be just fine. Possibly even a regular 2H BP with a dressing room. You know, unless she’s gonna cram three shires in there or something…

[LesleyW]

A lot of good advice and experience in this thread.
An important thing to remember is that the frame and suspension components are much stiffer and heavier in the heavy duty trucks. You need a frame that can withstand any movement without flex, and has the weight and stiffness to stop without torquing. I’ve towed flatbeds with up to 5,000 lbs with the Eco Boost Ford light duty trucks, and they can certainly get it moving - but I wouldn’t want a live, surging load, especially when going downhill. The big diesel trucks also have engine braking, and hill descent control for those steep grades (smoother hauling is much easier on live loads too).
The Ford Heavy Duty trucks have finally be redone for 2017, after nearly 20 years of “refreshes”. That means a taller, thicker, fully boxed frame with more cross members, and an aluminum body. Overall max tow rating is 32,500 lbs. Plus, it has a trailer back-up guide (not a full-on, do-it-for-you system like the F-150) and cameras on the tailgate and the back of the cab to make hitching the trailer a lot easier.

[SuckerForHorses]

I told him that a 2 horse trailer is easily 4,000-5,000 pounds

What kind of trailer are you pulling?

My 3H gooseneck with dressing room is 5400 lbs empty.

I have a 2-horse bumper pull with dressing room, steel, that weighs 3250 empty.

[clanter]

… I never really was overly concerned with the pulling power of the vehicle but really was more interested in it stopping ability.

The small trucks are small everywhere, brakes, transmission, suspensions which is OK until you add a load then things can and often go haywire rapidly

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=clanter;8869424]
… I never really was overly concerned with the pulling power of the vehicle but really was more interested in it stopping ability.

The small trucks are small everywhere, brakes, transmission, suspensions which is OK until you add a load then things can and often go haywire rapidly[/QUOTE]

This is very sound advice.

G.

[McGurk]

I have no experience with the V6 Eco Boost, and no idea how robust the tow package is on the truck you’re looking at. (Be sure to get specifics on exactly what’s in the tow package.)

But I think the only way you’re going to be able to make a decision is to actually hook the truck up to the trailer and take it for a test drive and see how it handles, particularly braking.

[Jim_in_PA]

We are getting into an era where certain things that previously held true, such as “towing with a V6 is bad” is going to have to be re-evaluated. V8 engines are quickly becoming less mainstream, at least in non-heavy duty vehicles, and are being replaced with turbocharged V6 power plants to help meet fleet fuel economy ratings requirements while still providing power to do the job. Ford’s EcoBoost V6 utilized in the F150 is no slouch in that respect and many, many folks who own them are very pleased with performance. That’s independent of whether or not the actual vehicle is suitable for the specific situation that the OP has. The next generation of my personal “tow vehicle” that debuts for the 2019 model year will no longer have a V8 engine available, including the high-end performance version. Turbo V6 will be the choice as a replacement.

[enjoytheride]

I once again really hate the “it’s not about the towing it’s about the stopping!!!” arguments.

The brakes on my trailer can wrestle my truck to a halt going downhill at speed if I have them adjusted too high. While there is a possibility of your trailer brakes going out and needing to stop the trailer with just the truck it is an emergency situation you aren’t going to come across as often as the capability of the truck dragging the trailer out of the start box going uphill at a light.

The people I know blowing out brake lines on their truck and overheating the brakes are towing without trailer brakes at all which is stupid.

You need to look at the pair as a whole. Wheelbase, towing capacity, rear gears, leaf springs, transmission, etc.

As an aside, nobody ever asks if the trailer brakes can stop the truck in the event that you develop a leak. Had a friend who had just that happen and if that darned jeep was just 10 feet further up she would have been safe.

[gypsymare]

Tow rating is a number to be considered for insurance purposes and weigh stations as an absolute maximum. It should not be confused with the weight that vehicle is going to be comfortable handling at highway speeds, through mountain passes and while hauling a live load being buffeted by winds. If you haul close to tow rating loads expect poor performance, early vehicle failure and misery.