Value of a small indoor riding arena

[mvp]

[QUOTE=arlosmine;7921699]
Cover half of your outdoor arena, and you have the best of both worlds without using up any more space than you already have.

No wall between the two spaces, you can use the whole thing, or not…depending on the day[/QUOTE]

FWIW, the arena I saw done this way just had water that rolled from the uncovered side of the arena to the covered, dry part. It wasn’t worth the expense of building half a roof.

Also, 60’ is narrow. Make sure the trusses and walls are wider. You’ll lose some space by the time you get to the track you’ll ride on.

I’m broke too, but I’d think hard about building an arena just 60’ wide. I don’t think it’s enjoyable or a recipe for long-term soundness and horses going forward.

If I did build an arena 60’ x 120’ or smaller, I’d try my best to leave some sides open so that it was visually larger to the horse. I spent New York winters working in a 60’ x 120’. While I could get things done, the horses didn’t like it— especially the lazy slackers who didn’t want to get ahead of my leg in the first place. They called it “the shoe box.”

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=meaty ogre;7922544]
I have a grass dressage sized riding area that is not used for turnout (it has been graded, planted and is irrigated). It is rideable in all but the wettest or frozen weather. I don’t ride on it when it’s really muddy in order to maintain it. I also have a pasture that we till under 2-4 times a year in order to keep as a dry lot for the fat pony and the mini horse. It is rideable only in the best conditions (clay-laden soil, gets very hard in between tillings). I also have a fenced paddock where I ride and where my daughter rides (to keep her and the pony contained), as well as trails around the property. Our farmette is approximately 5.5 acres, but we own the surrounding land as well. It is planted in crops though. A portion of the 5.5 acres is the house and the yard which are off limits (had to make some concession to keep hubby happy! LOL).

I would like to put the indoor directly behind the current barn, so that I can tack up and get into the indoor with minimal exposure to the elements when it is cold or raining. It would be possible to leave one side open (the side that would be facing the barn), but due to the wind I need at least 3 sides. Most likely I’d just have sliding doors on each side that I could leave open or shut.

In pricing this out, I’ve found that 60’ wide is the magic number. Going up to just 65’ increases the expense significantly. I don’t want to sacrifice the lights or the footing to go larger. Also, I have a small barn and a small property, so I want the building to not look out of place. I would love to have a 100x200 indoor for personal use, but I think it would be overkill even if it was in the budget.

I’m very lucky that I already own an arena drag, and the sitework is already done. I have an electrician in the family who will do the wiring and the lights, so all of those things do save a little bit of money.

I don’t have any young horses at the moment. My current mount is a western pleasure horse, so even in the smallest rings, the corners don’t come up fast. Nothing comes up fast! LOL A small indoor would be fine for my daughter on her pony, and would actually help in keeping her confined.

I’ve paid to board at places over the years in order to keep my horse in work, and with the available financing, I can build a small indoor for the amount that it has cost me to do that. Of course it will cost me that for many, many years. We have no intentions of selling the property so resale value isn’t a concern. If I ever stopped riding, my husband and brother in law would have the indoor full of farm implements before my saddle even had a chance to collect dust.

So, the purpose of the indoor would be to give me:
-an area to work in when it’s raining or after rain when the footing elsewhere is unsuitable
-a lighted area to work in when it’s dark (after work, after the kids go to bed…)
-a small confined area for long-lining or longing the horses for fitness
-a contained area to keep mini-MO and her pony for riding

It would have really come in handy the year that we rented an expensive bounce house for my daughter’s birthday only to have an out of season nor’easter render it unusable. We could have moved the party to the indoor![/QUOTE]

Sounds like, for your purpose, you have it all figured out already and will do what you want.

On the covered arena or completely enclosed one, if you can at least leave one side open and it truly is a multi-purpose building, you can save a ton on taxes over a completely enclosed building, especially if it is considered a single purpose one.
A multi-purpose one is taxed here less than an equestrian barn.

I would run that by the tax assessor’s office in your county and see what you find.

There is a 100’x100’ three sided barn here someone built and he said that leaving that one side open saved him 1/2 in taxes over having enclosed it totally, from being considered a “shed” to a “barn” or “warehouse”.
That changes by county or state laws, do check into that.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7922498]
Living in NY I chuckle at this idea. It does seem like the best of both worlds for areas where your problem is too much rain. I just can not see it working where winters include lots of wind driven snow.
Indoors are not heated (very often) in my neck of the woods but they most certainly need walls on all sides.[/QUOTE]

I agree. My outdoor arena freezes solid in winter. Even without snow blowing in, there is no way to maintain footing that is frozen solid, or even really muddy.

If I had the $ and space to put in a 60x90 indoor, I would do it. My outdoor is 80x100 and is more than satisfactory for basic schooling; we frequently ride on one half side for some exercises which is only 40x50. 60x90 would be huge compared to that, especially if you just had one horse at a time.

I have also heard about 60 being the magic number for width and price. I think you would use a 60x90 a lot if you had one. My only recommendation is to figure out how to let in the most light possible - the small private indoors I’ve been in have been dreadfully dark. (Or, of course a coverall, with the white roof makes a huge difference).

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=S1969;7922606]
My only recommendation is to figure out how to let in the most light possible - the small private indoors I’ve been in have been dreadfully dark. [/QUOTE]

We have a 2/3 foot fiberglass clear story above the solid walls and it helps a lot, but sky lights would be great. We also leave two of the sliding doors open 90% of the time. But that can work against you as the horse gets a blast of sunlight in it’s eyes every 50 feet or so and then dark again. Talk about recipe for spooking. Extra points if there cows are visible.

[meaty_ogre]

Taxes are something that I hadn’t thought about Bluey, thanks. My husband did actually talk to a dairy farmer who built both a pole building and a coverall type building to see his preferences. At the time, I think the coverall was cheaper, and he did like how light and airy it was. Also, he did say that the coverall was classified differently (temporary building maybe?) and I think was cheaper permit and tax-wise as a result.

I was leaning more towards a permanent structure, but now I’m wondering if a coverall might be worth re-consideration. Not that I forsee taking it down, but it would be much easier to do if we did decide to in the future. Now I need to go research what the life expectancy of coverall arenas are.

I completely understand (and agree with) the concerns about the width being too small, and the difficulty in getting and keeping a horse forward. It’s definitely not ideal as an every day riding area, but I have worked in small indoors before and was able to get a lot done. You do have to be creative to prevent boredom, but there are many things you can do in a small space, and anything is better than sitting inside the house and looking out the window at mud puddles, pouring rain or frozen tundra and wishing you could do something, anything!

To the poster who said they’ve spent entire lessons on a 20m circle, I’m glad I’m not the only one! LOL

Before I had my own facility I boarded at a farm that used to raise TBs for the track. They rode the horses inside the barn. Stalls were in the center and the aisle ran around the perimeter. There were mirrors at the corners so you could see oncoming traffic, and there were “jockey splats” of blood on the wall at each corner. Ugh! I did attempt to trot my horse for fitness, but I always pulled up to a walk before the corners, and never got the nerve to canter in there.

The alternative to building my own would be to board a horse at a place with an indoor over the winter, although that does not solve my inability to ride when it is too rainy/wet at home. There are few options locally with indoors. One of those places does not offer turnout which is a deal-breaker for me. The other place has a larger indoor but the footing is very deep sand. It’s a relatively new place and as they get kinks worked out, it may be a viable alternative in the near future.

[Bluey]

Here the cut-off in price seems to be, for metal buildings, at 100’ wide, any length doesn’t matter, but the wider it is, the bigger framing is needed and I assume also bigger foundation pylons or running borders.

Another cut-off is at 120’, after that you do get into massive columns for clear spans across that width, which again adds way more to the price.

If you are framing with wood, I have heard you can’t go over 100’ clear span without massive gluelam type beams or special trusses.
Standard wood framing starts to become more complicated for wider than 100’.

Go as wide as you can, you can always make it longer later, if you need to.

[kathy_s]

[QUOTE=meaty ogre;7921398]
I have a small farmette where I keep most of my horses. For most of my purposes, it is close to perfect. I have my facility set up to maximize turnout space and to minimize the amount of work for myself. My biggest, and really only complaint, is that I am not able to ride or work horses during the winter months or when there is excessive rain. Over the years I have often considered building a small indoor.

The indoor would have to be small because I do not have a huge budget and don’t want to give up a lot of turnout space or take away from my outdoor riding area. I prefer to ride outside whenever possible, but it would be nice to have the option when it’s raining or when the footing is too wet, frozen, etc. If I’m spending the money to build an indoor, it’s going to have lights and good footing so I’ve factored that into the available budget. No point in building one that can’t be used because the ground is frozen or it’s too dark.

I’ve boarded at 2 places with small indoors. I know they can be tricky, but I no longer jump, and over the years I’ve learned to be creative in making exercises that can be done within the small space. Both of the small indoors were about the same size (60’ wide by 80’ long). Both were cramped but I found them workable and actually was able to get quite a bit done at both places. I’d be the only one using the indoor so I don’t have to worry about traffic. I don’t jump any more, so that’s not a concern either. I do some long-lining, and a confined area can often be helpful with that.

I really feel for my purposes, the pros outweigh the cons, but I wonder if anyone in a similar situation built a small indoor and regretted it? Obviously if money and space were no option I’d go with larger, but my goals are to have a place to ride when weather is very bad, and an option for keeping horses fit by longing or long-lining during the off-season. I’d like to go with a 60’ x 96’. Footing and lights have been factored in, as well as available space.[/QUOTE]

I built a 60x80 and so far it’s been perfectly fine for us. We raise and train a youngster every year or so and the arena has been great for working them. I also use portable panels around the perimeter, which allows me to convert my arena into a 60’ round pen, or create a small turnout for a horse on rehab.

[meaty_ogre]

Thank you kathy s, I was really hoping to hear from a voice of experience.

[crosscreeksh]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7922563]
Sounds like, for your purpose, you have it all figured out already and will do what you want.

On the covered arena or completely enclosed one, if you can at least leave one side open and it truly is a multi-purpose building, you can save a ton on taxes over a completely enclosed building, especially if it is considered a single purpose one.
A multi-purpose one is taxed here less than an equestrian barn.

I would run that by the tax assessor’s office in your county and see what you find.

There is a 100’x100’ three sided barn here someone built and he said that leaving that one side open saved him 1/2 in taxes over having enclosed it totally, from being considered a “shed” to a “barn” or “warehouse”.
That changes by county or state laws, do check into that.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for THAT tip on the Tx. taxing!! We have bought bare land in Tx. and plan to build our “last” horse farm there. My design is a 60’x144’ clear span building with a 36x60 stable at one end and the rest used for hay storage and a small arena. the west end will be closed in and 36 feet of the adjoining north and south sides for a weather proof hay storage area and a wind break. Depending on how much hay is stored the riding area will be 60x96. Big enough to lunge/hack a bit/turnout in bad weather. Good to know that leaving 60 feet open will save on taxes!!!

[crosscreeksh]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7922633]
Here the cut-off in price seems to be, for metal buildings, at 100’ wide, any length doesn’t matter, but the wider it is, the bigger framing is needed and I assume also bigger foundation pylons or running borders.

Another cut-off is at 120’, after that you do get into massive columns for clear spans across that width, which again adds way more to the price.

If you are framing with wood, I have heard you can’t go over 100’ clear span without massive gluelam type beams or special trusses.
Standard wood framing starts to become more complicated for wider than 100’.

Go as wide as you can, you can always make it longer later, if you need to.[/QUOTE]

Do you know of any “pole”/wooden post-beam builders in NE Tx.??? I’ve only found one so far. Everyone is building with steel poles/trusses which is not really cost effective at 60’ wide. You waste $10-12k on concrete that you never see again…and have to build a “wooden” stable inside of the steel barn anyway!! We built a wooden/steel 50x250 stable/arena/ indoor gallop track in NY 40 years ago and it is still standing!!!

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=crosscreeksh;7922993]
Do you know of any “pole”/wooden post-beam builders in NE Tx.??? I’ve only found one so far. Everyone is building with steel poles/trusses which is not really cost effective at 60’ wide. You waste $10-12k on concrete that you never see again…and have to build a “wooden” stable inside of the steel barn anyway!! We built a wooden/steel 50x250 stable/arena/ indoor gallop track in NY 40 years ago and it is still standing!!![/QUOTE]

No, don’t know any that build with wood any more, but it possibly be cheaper on the smaller buildings.

Our building is metal and came from Rhino Buildings in Denton, TX, Johnny Grigsby was the salesman.
We had bids from several companies and theirs was the best on the material, engineering and price for what we were getting.

You may call him about who would be good to build in your area, as they sell to all kinds of builders and some I am sure would use wood if you so choose, right out of the local lumberyard.

[crosscreeksh]

I did get a quote from Rhino…the best of the metal building companies, by far. Just a good bit over the wooden structure. All the builders I talk to push the all steel buildings, but in NC where our building was 200x200 (100x200 covered arena) we literally had to build a wooden stable inside of the steel shell so we could have traditional 2x6, 4 sided stalls. Not to mention the $20,000 in concrete below each pillar of the building!! Thanks for the tip, Bluey.

[Bluey]

If your stalls are not built into the framing of the structure, here they are considered furniture and not added to the cost of the structure for tax purposes.
That is why you see so many portable stalls being used inside all kinds of structures.

May not be the same where you are.

[fordtraktor]

Meatyogre, I think your indoor idea sounds divine and that size would be fine. If I ever win the lottery or inherit from a long lost rich uncle we never knew existed, I will build just that!

[blairasb]

Personally, I love a small arena. Now, you may not be able to ride in a group, but it will teach you to ride corners and sides correctly. Mourning the sale of the family farm with a small indoor. Would have been the perfect place to start my new filly- there’s something to be said for a smallish workspace with young horses that removes a few options…

[js]

For personal use, I think the size would be fine. Just having an indoor would be a dream come true for many of us, regardless of the size. My only thing would be a good look at how it will effect your property value. If you are staying long term, no problem but if there was a chance you would move, make sure you will not be over valuing your farm and there is reasonable possibility of getting your money back on your investment. If you are in a horsey area, probably not an issue but a less horsey area, or an area that has fairly low cost properties it might be something to think about.

[CalPal]

Hope it’s not horribly rude to ask but you say that this is affordable for you. Do you mind sharing what the cost is? We have tossed around the idea but have no idea what such a thing would run. I would be looking at about the same size

No worries if you don’t want to say or if not publicly you could pm me. Thanks!

[khall]

I know someone who put up a 60x110 covered for $50,000 no lights but was insulated. I would be happy with that! I covet a covered and have, don’t need sides here in GA too hot for that. I would not go less than 60 wide, length depends on what you can handle, 110 is a bit short for my big horse.

[quietann]

My filly’s breeder had a small indoor built when she moved to where she is now. I think it’s 50 by 50. At the time she was training quite a few horses, and given that she’s in Michigan, she wanted a place to train in bad weather. Also, as someone else said, when you’re starting a horse you might want to be in a nice enclosed space!

She does a lot of obstacle work with all the horses she has in training, and it’s big enough to set up a nice obstacle course. But everything is set up so she can move the obstacles when she needs to focus on basic under-saddle training. She doesn’t do a lot of cantering in there, except on horses who are pretty far into their training.

It is clearly designed so that it could be used as storage space (and she does store hay in there sometimes.) It has lighting but no heat (she has a propane heater that is very noisy at start-up and uses it for desensitization as well as warmth. Can you imagine how proud I was watching her turn the darn thing on while holding my 9 month old filly at the other end of the lead rope? Josephine flinched but didn’t move her feet at all!)

[Guilherme]

Our cover is 65’x200’ (20m x 60m). It is lighted. We covered an existing outdoor. It is lighted and has a two rail board fence as a perimeter. We have our round pen (40’)at one end.

The upside is that in South heat is the enemy and in the warm months is really nice. We lose maybe 10 days a summer where in the p.m. it breaks 90 and with our humidity and no breeze that’s just too much for man and beast!!! We lose about the same number of days in the winter where the temp. is below 20 and we’ve a brisk wind. We live with these “losses” as the rest of the time it’s useable.

One other time we can lose utility is where be get a “frog strangler” with high winds. The remains of Hurricane Ivan soaked about 3/4 of the arena and it took several days for it to dry out.

I’ve ridden in one Coverall in GA (northeast of Atlanta) and didn’t think it would work for us. This technology was originally developed for green houses and livestock production. It tends to absorb and hold heat. Even at 11 a.m. on the day we rode it was already getting “close” and the vent fans were running. Then there’s the issue of life expectancy. Our steel structure is just fine after 15 years; I understand Coveralls have a life expectancy (it’s plastic and plastic is a chemical that keeps reacting over the years). I’m also not sure you can disassemble and move one without significant risk to the covering material.

Up North the Coverall might work very nicely; in the South, I have my doubts.

The money in any “clear span” structure is in the width. The “break point” for us was 65’. The price curve actually started to steepen after 45’ but really took off between 65’ and 70’ feet (that extra 5’ cost about 15%, IIRC; the next 5’ were even more).

Dealing the tax folks you have to be honest. If you buy a “covered riding arena” you’ll be hit with the “rich folks levy.”* But if you buy a “multipurpose utility agricultural building” you will likely pay the much lower rate farmer’s rate. Since it’s multipurpose once you build it you can do anything you want with it (including ride in it). This might mean an argument later, but at least you’ve got an argument to make! Keep this in mind as you talk to contractors.

Good luck to the OP in their project.

G.

*After all, if you’ve got enough money for luxury goods, like horses, and a luxury item like an indoor riding arena, you must be rich and need to pay your “fair share.” This is the Tax Man’s Logic.