Did you ask the country the products are manufactured/assembled in?
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âCertifiedâ by whom?
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Did they tell you which country(s) the products are manufactured/assembled in?
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The shoes are from Italy and the rest from different countries
@Manni01 if they answered all of the (your) questions why not share the actual answers with the other people who are interested here?
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Why should I do this?? I opened the thread because I believe itâs an interesting topic and they answered my questions very friendly and helpful. And I look forward to go to Wellington in the future and to look at the tack. And then I will make my decisionâŠ
But my findings are not the purpose of this thread⊠I remember to get accused that I would promote a product for sale in the past. So I am sorry If you are interested in this, do your own research
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LOL!!!
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If the boots are made in Italy and that info is readily available but other products are made in varies other countries that leads one to think ( whether right or wrong) that those other countries may be India or China; otherwise if it were France or England I believe that would have been said.
No need to elaborate, we are free to call and request that information ourselves.
I sent an inquiry asking more details about the saddle, like seat sizes, gullet sizes, how itâs adjustable and where itâs manufactured/assembled.
Let me make sure I understand what just happened here.
You started the thread because you wanted to have a discussion about this product line and wanted other people to share information and their thoughts, but now youâre refusing to share your information and opinions?
But my findings are not the purpose of this thread.
Because you donât want to be accused of promoting the product?
Starting the thread didnât worry you; but actually participating in your own thread and sharing information; you think that crosses a line?
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Has hell frozen over? Is that why itâs bitterly cold out today? Because I find myself in the strange position of wanting to defend @Manni01 !
I suspect that Manni got answers to only a subset of the questions that have been asked in this thread. And I suspect those answers involve detail that an individual whoâs not involved in the productsâ production or marketing canât be expected to memorize and recite on command after a single phone conversation.
There are a number of organizations that offer certification for vegan and environmental criteria, and the tremendous complexity of that space is driven by the intricacies of the various relevant markets (e.g. producing green energy is not the same thing as producing green paper products; vegan foods involve a different supply chain than vegan bridles). Some certifications come from the U.S. government (e.g. USDA and EPA), some from global organizations, some local nonprofits â this decentralization reflects the fact that the expertise needed to evaluate a range of properties and processes across a wide range of industries is held by different groups. Many of the multitude of certifications involve acronyms; most are unfamiliar to the average consumer. Even someone with good awareness of common certifications might not fully grasp the details of a productâs certifications after a single phone conversation. Hopefully Robert Squared will improve the copy on their website and link to the standards of the certifications theyâve received so that consumers will know what bar theyâve met on environmental and animal treatment fronts.
Manni also canât be expected to remember the full list of countries in which product assembly takes place, let alone the set of locales that materials and products might visit along the entire course of the supply chain. The facts that are most relevant to some of the questions about environmental impacts (e.g. where chemical processes take place to synthesize source materials) were probably not discussed in her conversation.
Nor is it typical for tack manufacturers to discuss such things in detail (how many of us know where our saddles were stitched ⊠and where the leather was tanned, and what specific tanning processes were used, and where the animals were raised, slaughtered, so on). I understand the scrutiny of supply chain details when environmentally friendliness is explicitly invoked in marketing. But I donât expect Manni to have more exhaustive knowledge about this product line than most of us have about the various other brands of tack weâve interacted with as consumers. Again, I think the onus is on the company to make basic information available (materials, location of assembly, other production details relevant to environmental claims). And ultimately, like all consumer goods, digging deeper will probably only done by those who suspect malfeasance or hidden issues. Remaining skeptical seems reasonable to me, given what we donât know, but expecting a forum member to essentially conduct an investigative report at this stage seems a little much.
I think Manni is saying, albeit in a way that I find a little confusing, that sheâs not a brand representative and doesnât want to be held accountable for providing accurate, detailed factual information about this product line. That seems fair. I hope sheâll still be willing to share her own opinions and impressions if she does get to Wellington to scope out the tack in person.
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This thread is now officially hilarious :lol:
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It is not uncommon for saddlers to have information available about where their products are made. For example:https://stubbennorthamerica.com/crafting-a-saddle/
https://www.passier.com/en/company/2âŠ-for-business/
https://www.kieffer.net/en/company.html
https://devoucoux.com/us/en/pages/nous
Kieffer seems to have its own non-leather goods, though I donât see saddles. https://www.kieffer.net/en/service/materials.html
Hopefully in time the Robert Squared website will provide similar information regarding materials and manufacturing.
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Your links demonstrate that in general tack manufacturers do not provide much detail about their supply chains or environmental impacts. Devocoux, another tack company that uses âgreenâ marketing, is the only example you linked that provides enough info (well, almost enough info â takes a little additional research) to be able to ascertain the hide origin, general tanning processes, tannery location, and assembly location. Not to mention how much gets swept under the rug by companies claiming that vegetable tanning in general is an eco-friendly process⊠These links do not set the bar for disclosing manufacturing information nearly as high as the questions asked so far in this thread do.
I would expect that as they get farther into the process, Robert Squared will provide information about workshop locations for assembly and basic materials similar to what is listed on those websites â it would be insane to try to sell high end tack without providing info that equestrian consumers expect. In the meantime, itâs ridiculous to expect Manni to provide factual detail equal or greater to most tack companiesâ marketing/product information webpages.
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The links I provided are links to saddlers whose marketing is not based on being eco-friendly nor vegan. They are examples of the basic information regarding the country of manufacture, information that I would expect from any fairly expensive line of tack.
One would expect a line of expensive tack marketed as Vegan and eco-friendly to provide information about the materials used and the place of manufacture. I donât think this is an unrealistic expectation.
Nowhere in my post did I refer to Manni, it had nothing to do with her. It was about information provided by saddlers on their websites.
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@skydy, Were you not responding to what I said about tack companies generally not providing the sorts of details about supply chain that would answer the kinds of environmental impacts questions that have come up in this thread (which was part of an argument about fairness to Manni)? I apologize for assuming that you were responding to what I wrote.
In any case, I think we generally agree about what a saddlery company typically provides regarding basic materials and manufacture, and that this new company should at least meet that minimum standard. I just tend to think that they donât yet have that on their website because theyâre new and got a little ahead of their web development with the launch, not because theyâre hiding something nefarious.
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I agree with you. I think they rather jumped the gun with their launch, not that they wonât provide the information at some point in time. Theyâll need to do so if they want to sell expensive tack to the vegan-eco-friendly market.
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Agree. I get the launch party but the web site should be providing more information regarding the products like sizes available etc.
I did send an inquiry asking for more information.
I confess to using Zilco harness at my job, but personally Iâm a diehard leather fan. As for vegan boots, my bunions would not approve, I am sure.
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Just landed at West Palms. I will check the goods out this week!
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