It’s not, but when there are breed specific requirements to lock horses up 24/7 so they can have long tails and fancy shoes…
I honestly cannot fathom why you would stall a horse for the great majority of its life just so you can zip it around an arena with a cart and have a long tail.
It has to live locked up in a box its whole life…
…for this.
The guy in the red hat in video #3 is an actual horseman. From the side he pushed on the horse’s left hindquarters to get him to put that right foot down and stand. He saw it from half way across the ring and ran over to calmly do exactly what that horse needed. A+, man.
The collective bystanders who had a small eternity to grab horse #2’s bridle while it stood up dazed are fkn useless.
Interesting how in the one discipline where the horses and people look like they actually work, the horsemanship of both participants and bystanders is miles better…
(Although I never understand why the announcers don’t at least try a calm, authoritative “WHOA.”)
So the takeaway is that you never want to be within a quarter mile of any kind of indoor driving show.
FWIW Arabs are not crazy, they feed off and amplify the crazy of their owner and for some reason crazy is attracted to the breed.
When I was a kid, just starting to ride, the only game in town was a 5-Gaited barn.
Mostly boarders, mostly ASB, and yes, this is how those horses were kept. Circa late 1950s.
I learned what was then called Huntseat on their small string of school horses - mixed bag of breeds.
Some 30+ years later when I visited the same barn to ask about boarding, BO was still ASB-centric.
He told me I would not want turnout because"You want all that energy stored for your ride."
Crossed that place off the list…
OTOH, my Hackney Pony friends turn ponies out as much as they can.
Neighbors have their retired show ponies pastured along with current yearlings & the occasional mare with foal at her side.
Ponies being shown - Roadster & Pleasure - are turned out with tails wrapped so they keep the ground-dragging length.
Another Hackney-driving friend turns her 2 out daily & drives her (Fine Harness/Pleasure) mare on trails with our club.
Neither uses the stacked shoes.
Can’t tar all breed owners with the same brush.
I had a OTTB I drove that went better in an open bridle. She would work in blinkers, but preferedp seeing everything.
What are the horses in the video? I assumed they were Hackneys. I’ve never known of anyone trying to drive an Arabian except in Egypt. Halflingers are my least favorite breed for driving. They’re tanks with no factory installed steering or brakes. And the pony attitude to boot. Lol.
IME, my mature big guys have had a different attitude in general than light horses. I can’t say for sure if it’s a byproduct of selective breeding or the training they receive for their line of work. They’re independent thinkers/problem solvers, if that makes sense. The best of many examples:
We rented a property that had been a small stud. The two sides of the run in shed were divided to accommodate the individual horses in the two adjacent paddocks. There was a pedestrian area about 3’ wide set off by corral panels set in concrete. Think of two smaller squares set down in the large rectangle formed by the run in. Somehow, the senior Percheron got pushed into the pedestrian ally by the young OTTBs. And walked the whole length, making two 90 degree turns until he hit the deadend formed by the wall. I’d gone out to check the water and found him there.
I was freaking out but had no choice but to pick my daughter up from preschool. The whole drive was
spent making phone calls to friends and the vet to line up help. I was kicking myself that I couldn’t even recall if the shed was board and batten or sheet metal. Arriving home, I jumped out and ran for the shed. Grazing in the field, cool as a cucumber, was the Percheron. He’d apparently calmly backed himself out the approximately 50’ length of the ally, negotiating the two 90 degree turns in the process! The vet checked him over and declared him perfectly fine. And here we’d all been ready to call in North Fork Large Animal Rescue to pull the shed walls apart to rescue him!
I’ve mentioned it here before. Young draft horses tend to be fractious or big goofballs (Oops! Did I do thaaaat?) At about 10, they seem to magically transform into a creature that acts more like a person in a horse costume than a horse.
My horses lived outside. When I brought Crackers, my Hackney pony, home, he had always lived in a stall with occasional time alone in a very small pen. The previous owner’s daughter said she thought he was depressed since he’d been retired a year before, and just had walls to look at all the time. She was the only one there who ever interacted with him once he was no longer showing.
I took him off the trailer at home and put him in the corral, which had a gate that was kept open that led to a couple of acres of pasture. He went tearing around with his tail up, looking so happy. He wouldn’t go in the shed at all for several years. He finally started using it when he got into his late 20s and seemed to feel the cold more, even blanketed.
He used to look so cute standing out in the snow in front of the sheds, very content. All you could see was his eyes and ears–everything else was snow covered.
The rescue folks, from whom I’d gotten my other two horses, and who told me about Crackers and urged me to buy him, said they thought I’d saved his sanity, giving him room to roam and a herd to hang out with.
Rebecca
@Wanderosa it’s an Arab. Their breed shows have driving classes (as do AQHA, appy, palomino breed shows… or they did way back when, and I’m pretty sure they still do).
I was speaking to one of our top singles drivers recently (he starts and trains for his day job) and we were talking about breeds and driving. He was a huge fan of hackney ponies. Now welsh ponies… his thoughts were it could go either way. Hackneys as little war ponies just about summed it up!
Of course drive a horse in what equipment they are comfortable wearing.
My point that I guess was not clearly made was that the horse had zero ground driving training, though he is one hell of a riding horse. She put the harness on him with an open bridle, attached the cart and went down the road. It was amazing to see and horrifying at the same time thinking “what if” which never crossed her mind.
I read an article once that pointed out that the horses that used to pull fire engines didn’t generally wear blinders. Kind of fascinating when you consider that they were about the only horses that would’ve been deliberately pushed to a fast canter/gallop on city streets. Maybe the rationale was that they needed to have their full field of vision available for the speeds required of them?
Another thing that crossed my mind: Do they have the same safety regulations at these breed shows that they do for draft horse competitions? For example, if you are caught with horses hitched but unbridled at a draft horse show, you are immediately disqualified and will be made to leave the show grounds. I bet if you’d checked each of the horses in that video there would’ve been loose throat latches, misadjusted harness, etc. One of the saddest accidents I ever heard of was a team of Dutch Harness horses that pulled a carriage for fall leaf tours in MA. The company would pull into an old corn crib to load and unload. They did this for years without incident until the day that one of the horses swung his head around to bite at a fly. His bridle caught on a nail sticking out of the wall and came off. The horses bolted. (Fortunately, no one was on the carriage.) They ran 2 miles in a blind panic and finally into a pond where they drowned because the weight of the harness and carriage pulled them under. 
When you drive a big hitch there are even more extra safety precautions you take. The driver almost always has an assistant riding shotgun. It’s not uncommon for there also to be someone riding and driving off one of the lead team. (Check out a British royal parade if you’ve never seen this done. I’m almost positive that I even saw them doing it with the Queen’s carriage at Ascot.) For parades or other crowded venues most outfits will also have several people whose job it is to head the horses so they’re right there in the event of an emergency. Budweiser pairs their horses on a basically permanent basis. If one horse in a team will have to miss a performance due to illness or injury, his partner also sits it out.
You can’t paint a whole Breed as ‘good, bad or unsuitable’ for an activity, just because they are a particular breed. We drove a Half-Arab as our ‘learner’ driving animal. We wrecked with her at least twice, no terrible messes like on the videos. She waited for us to help her, drove again with no issues. Sure, she was ‘one in a million’ for ANY breed, we were so lucky to have had her!
I know lovely individual animals of many breeds that drive, while their full sibling was a riding only horse. We have had those too, did not have the right mind for it, to meet OUR requirements in a driving horse. And the MOST SCARY part is many first hitching goes SO WELL. Horse never reacts badly until 6-7-8th hitching when they decide they REALLY do not like driving. We had one like that. She actually WAS telling us she was not happy, we just did not ‘read her’ right to quit driving. She gave up on us and SHOWED us driving was not her thing! Was a bad wreck. We ‘read’ better now!! She moved on to very successful jumping career with her new owner.
Certainly horses have been bred for docility, ease of handling, training, but still not all members of any breed will work in all horse disciplines. Some Hackney horses and Saddlebreds are or have been terrific jumpers, though jumping is not promoted by their Breed advertising. I personally KNOW Haflingers that are light on your hands, flexible as a snake to drive in hazards, cones, ride for the kids in Games at the Show. I would proudly take them anyplace if they were mine. TBs have been and are driven, though not a common choice. You have to evaluate the individual and his reactions if you think to get him for driving. Half TBs are fairly common driving horses in many areas.
The way folks develop their animal to win in the Breed ring may be very different than how other horse breeds are handled. We all have OUR way of doing things, so other methods will seem strange looking at them. We have known many breeders of ‘fine horse’ Breeds who do not keep them totally contained, think their horses need daily exercise. In fact husband (a Farrier) has advised some newer owners, handlers, of how to manage show trained ASBs and Arabs. The horses DO GET turned out for a timed length, then brought back in, hosed off, dried, groomed, fly sprayed and returned to his screened barn, giant stall, on a daily basis. It is funny to see horse ‘self exercise’ by going around the ring or paddock in a routine of walk, trot, canter, reverse direction, repeat. No person near him. Horse does not do less work one way or the other. When finished he will then come back to the gate to get caught and cleaned up. You can set your watch by the time horse works, always the same amount of working time used. New handler, owner is quite amazed!! They ARE trained to be Prima Donnas, like having a routine to depend on.
Some of the draft owners are the most careless drivers I ever see. Harness is ill kept, they have bad hitching routines, do not use safety measures. Of course there are MANY more careful Draft horse users, but they are not who you hear about after a wreck. Draft folks often must work alone, no hired help around, so they develop questionable handling practices that depend on obedient horses. Usually that can work, but surprises get everyone hurt. No one likes a change in their dependable routine.
Driving shows, not Breed related, have the bridle rule in place. Usually posted on signs prominently to prevent problems. Folks coming from riding disciplines have to learn this practice, whole new way of thinking to them.
In the USA you won’t often see ridden horses hitched to a vehicle except Military caisson vehicles (Arlington Cemetary) or a very special type carriage. Williamsburg, Viginia does have their antique style vehicles driven daily using Postillion riders. They are the most experienced with this type hitch in their recreated setting of Colonial America. They have Cleveland Bays and other breeds in use as ridden and driven animals as part of supporting Rare Breeds. Postillion is most commonly seen using the Queen’s horses in various special events lIke the Royal Weddings, Ascott racing days, shown on TV.
In my experience showing on the Arabian circuit, often the amateur driving classes are filled with older folks who don’t ride and have little performance experience, but they own a horse and want to show. This is not always the case, but more often than not I see it. I recall an amateur driving class at nationals in Louisville one year…an arena full of horses and ammys, several of the horses were hotter, open caliber horses with less experienced amateurs driving. There was one wreck…then another…then a third…and I couldn’t watch any more. I did come back in after the class was lined up and being placed, and one older lady with a cute, broke to death gray horse that wasn’t of a caliber to have placed had the fancier hot horses not wrecked, drove out of the arean waving her top ten ribbon and yelling “I survived!”
My horse of a lifetime that I lost at 30 and is buried here on my farm was absolutely a blast to drive. He hated blinkers and would shake off the bridle (his ears were set too far forward and it didn’t matter how tight the throatlatch was), but in an open bridle he was awesome and fearless. I could have driven him down the interstate facing oncoming traffic and the most he would have done was put both ears forward. We went through some hellacious stuff out driving on the trails, and he never put a foot wrong. And he was a purebred Arabian.
Perfect analogy, I didn’t even have to click on the link to know what video it was
I was lucky enough to get to meet and have a long conversation with hem.
I think you can see this happen but is dangereus
Fifty-something years ago, at my first lesson barn, a hunter barn, all the horses were kept stalled all the time. There was no turnout. Same as at my second barn, a saddle-seat barn. There was no comparison between the two barns as to quality of facility, horses, or programs. The first was very well run, the second was not. Yet both kept their horses the same way.
Originally posted by 5:
FWIW Arabs are not crazy, they feed off and amplify the crazy of their owner and for some reason crazy is attracted to the breed.
This fits in with all I have learned about Arabians. I never heard they were hot and crazy until about 10 years ago. I agree, the “crazy” is in the people who are attracted to them. I never knew before that anyone drove Arabians.
I learned to drive on an Arabian. He was very laid back while still being responsive. He was part of a matched pair that my trainer drove in parades with zero drama. She brought him over to my house for my maiden voyage on the road with my Hackney pony. My trainer was riding the Arabian while I drove the Hackney. She was hoping her calm horse would help keep my Hackney from doing anything too stupid. The Hackney had never been driven outside an arena according to the woman from whom I bought him. We’d been working with him in my big front pasture, where he had been easy to deal with. That entire first drive on the road consisted of the pony constantly reacting: Mailbox! OMG! Newspaper folded at the end of a driveway! OMG! The Arabian, on the other hand, just looked at my silly Hackney and clearly thought his antics were dumb. After a short one-mile drive, the Hackney came home drenched in sweat and the Arabian hadn’t even gotten warmed up.
The Hackney was funny, though–vehicles never bothered him, including cars, trucks with rattly trailers, my neighbor’s 18 wheeler and its air horn, fire trucks with lights and sirens, trash truck compacting, road graders. He didn’t like the helicopter that landed right near us, but he did hold it together. But he never got over mailboxes and newspapers. He was afraid of black trash bags, but white or orange ones were OK. He wouldn’t walk through a puddle when harnessed at first, but splashed around in them in the pasture with no problem. Most signs were OK, but political signs seemed to set him off (one party in particular–huh??). His worst reaction was to a 30-something year old Morgan mare, just standing in a pasture quite a distance off the road. He was definitely quirky, but so much fun once I got him to understand that nothing was going to eat him.
Rebecca
As a horseless kid I loved it when my mom would drive me to the late, lamented Childrens Services Horse Show. It was an old-style multi-ring, multi-discipline show. Great for spectators (And there actually were quite a few!)
Anyway they would have jumpers in one ring, hunters or pleasure in a second, and saddleseat and fine harness in the third. As I got older I watched the friction in the warm up areas as they would overlap. The hunter pleasure pony would be quietly going around when a saddlebred would explode into the ring wearing stretchies with a person following with a whip and a shake can! Ironically the saddleseat horses often were used to the “animation devices” while the hunt seat horses sure got animated!
Every time I watched the driving horses (which also freaked out some horses!) there was at least a wreck every two classes or so. Ponies seemed to be the worst as they could flip the carts and get tangled in a heartbeat. Fortunately, there always seemed to be good horse people to jump in and never saw more than two horses involved.
Actually the worst wreck involving a harnessed pony was a pair of pulling ponies! They were obviously amped and on the edge and when the guy missed dropping onto the hook, they took off and pulled away from the driver. They ran across the pulling ring and jumped the fence - actually cleared it with the hitch scraping over. They ran down into the midway of the fair! Fortunately nobody was badly injured. New fencing and drug testing requirements were quickly instituted.
On that note, after watching a pulling competition in NE TN a couple years ago, I decided the Most Dangerous Job with horses, possibly most dangerous job period, was the guy who is responsible for dropping the ring onto the hook. I don’t know how they get out of the way in time.
I know nothing about driving, so this thread got me looking. Found this:
https://dochammill.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Preventing-Wrecks-with-Driving-HorsesAugust1.pdf
It was interesting and he talks about the “little things” that can be done incorrectly, and lead to a big mess.
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