I once had a BO confront me and my vet about the cost of my bill. I’ve never been more embarrassed.
Obviously the ROI in a DVM is a point of concern, but even the least financially affluent among us can afford good manners.
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???
Why did the barn owner care what you were paying for your vet bill? That is between you and your vet, and only you and your vet.
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This is really unfortunate. It still doesn’t give the customer the right to demand a vet make calls. It does suggest that the horse owners in the area might want to band together to see if there’s some way to make keeping horses more viable there. But the fact that an owner decides to keep horses in a remote area with few available vets is a problem for the owner to troubleshoot and not the vets. I don’t get to move to Podunk nowhere and be mad at Starbucks because there isn’t one on every corner. Or demand they deliver to me. I’ve got to figure out what I want to do to get my coffee fix since I decided to live far from coffee shops.
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@supershorty628 I will ask next time I see her.
You’re right, Doomsday came to mind.
I sure hope her numbers are off!
Where do you see higher numbers?
There’s no database of “who graduated and is going into what,”, which is why I have no idea where that number came from, but unless my vet school (of the ~30 accredited programs in the US) is singlehandedly generating >40% of the entire new equine vet workforce, it’s wrong. My class (which graduated last year) had at least 10 who went into equine practice.
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I can only speculate why BO cared and I take full responsibility for my part in the fiasco.
BO routinely uses a vet popular with sheep / cattle farmers. I routinely use the local orthopedic equine specialist. Had been for decades prior to boarding at this place. I declined BO administered vaxx and wormer. I declined using the sheep vet. I scheduled a farm call with my vet and scheduled off work all day so I could be present to hold my horse.
This caused some sort of stir in the cult following at the barn…
I had vet do routine vaxx, health cert, dental, sheath cleaning and physical exam of a couple minor issues. Nothing too exciting. My farm call was fairly high, but well within what I expected. BO requested to look at my invoice. I thought BO wished to verify I had appropriate vaxx administered. I was wrong.
BO went on a mini rant re I was raped financially. Vet must be more used to this than I as he didn’t react. I managed to spout off something along the lines of I was happy to pay for professional care for my Dobbin and would not be subjecting him to the sheep vet to save a few bucks.
Perhaps calling her out on the sheep vet bit was low. But I stand by my statement. Never again will I share my vet invoices though. That was a mistake on my part.
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The demands on all vets are frightening !
The shortage of large animal vets is alarming !
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So, my situation was in a county with a population of nearly 200,000 people. One of the top 10 most affluent counties in the state. A fairly substantial horse population. Yet we had ONE equine vet for the entire county. There were vets in neighboring counties who would help out when they could. I had a colic on a weekday during business hours. The ONE vet was out of town; made arrangements with a local small animal practice to cover emergencies. Yet when I called them they would not come out because I wasn’t an existing client (why would I be) and said my vets receptionist was mistaken. None of the vets in other counties could come out. I tried to haul to an emergency clinic 2 hours away but my truck wouldn’t start. My neighbors trailer had a flat. My friends were at work. It’s easy to be a keyboard warrior and say “you should have done this or that,” but the bottom line is I had contingency plans and they all fell through.
I don’t mean to make assumptions, but knowing you from COTH, I know we both have spent a lot of time in the greater Philadelphia area where vets are in abundance. But you don’t have to be in podunkville to lose that level of access. I now live only 90 min from NBC again and even in my immediate area we are losing equine vets every year despite having a large horse population. That’s the problem: they are being overworked here.
If you think I am someone making demands of vets, you haven’t read any of my posts.
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@supershorty628 If you don’t mind giving me the name of your school, I can let my vet know at least 1/2 her Gloom & Doom # is coming from there.
She is a grad of Purdue, the Gold Standard here in IN.
Also want to add:
For anyone keeping horses at home, justifying the cost of their transport is - to my mind - not optional.
Either find a way to buy truck & trailer, make arrangements with someone who owns transport or go back to boarding where most BO will have truck & trailer available for emergencies.
I have a neighbor/hayguy who regularly uses my 2H 16’ stock.
In return he does annual maintenance on it & gives me bargain basement price on hay.
His trailer is a Draft-sized GN, 8’ high X 8’ wide X 24’, so overkill for delivering 50 or so bales to a customer.
On my side, I haul so infrequently that it keeps my trailer in repair, rather than leave it sitting on the pad.
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This sucks.
I live over an hour from my vet. We schedule my regular maintenance (vaccinations/coggins/teeth/etc.) calls for times she’s in my area. I am her furthest client and she only keeps me because I used to be closer (I am soooo thankful). She has driven out after hours before to do xrays on my three legged lame horse. She has also offered me to trailer to her for when my guy needs joint injections. So far, it makes more sense for me to pay the farm call and have her come out. But if it came down to it, I would probably still keep her as my vet if I had to haul in.
Now, there is an old, local cattle vet that I would call if I had a put-to-sleep immediately situation. A lot of local people use him for vaccinations and Coggins. But I’d still rather haul out at this point. (Similar to @lenapesadie not wanting to use a sheep vet for Dobbin.)
Other than her and the cattle vet–I’ve got over an hour drive either direction for equine hospitals/practices.
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There are also some injury logistics that make trailering impossible and/or difficult.
Horse is 3 legged lame, how do you get them in the trailer if it is a step-up? How about getting them off the trailer?
Or, one that happened to me – horse degloved and cut off the entire back half of their hoof, heel, and pastern. You could see bone and there was blood everywhere. Vet came to do tourniquet and stabilize the horse but it required hospitalization. The horse ripped off the bandage and tourniquet in the trailer. When we got there, blood was trickling out from under my trailer door and the horse was in shock from extreme blood loss.
Or the many emergent injuries that make so the horse isn’t stable enough to handle travel - like a horse being down, breaking something, being neurologic, just got cast in a stall and is in shock, etc etc… There’s been several points in my horse career where the horse was unfit to travel but needed emergent medical care.
Or the very grim situation where after assessment, horse needs to be PTS. Been there, done that when a horse of mine suffered a catastrophic joint puncture to his stifle.
I can’t imagine being in OP’s shoes. I don’t think a traveling vet is a luxury, though.
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My primary GP vet was 80% small animal, 20% equine and she shut down her equine side for all but a dozen long term clients. I’m one she kept but she advised us to have a back up vet and she understood if we had to leave her for full time equine services elsewhere. The reason she cut back: she has one associate she hired out of vet school 2 1/2 years ago and she can’t find another associate to hire. She’s interviewed a few that will do small animal only but their requirements as new hires don’t work for her- the starting wage and work hours. She provides after hours emergency services for her clients but that will be the next service to kick to emergency clinics because of staffing issues.
I use her for primary care needs and an equine specialty clinic for anything else. Both clinics are fine with my arrangement. FTR, the equine specialty clinic has had a huge uptick in service request because 4 local equine vets quit providing after hours services and refer into them. They may rethink how they provide care to non regulars…
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I do agree that having a truck and trailer is a necessity if you keep horses at home. It is something I made sure to have before my guys moved home.
However, there are definitely times when a vet has to come to my place. If my horse’s leg is clearly broken I’m not hauling him over an hour in extreme pain to be PTS (if he can even get on the trailer in that state). Or my childhood mare–she was down in the pasture and unable to get up.
I do not fault a vet for not making farm calls as part of their business model. But I 1000% hope it is not the trend for all of them. I happily pay and do not complain about the added $75-150 on my bill for her time and fuel.
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It seems to me, though, that equine medicine is traveling in the opposite direction. I’m thinking of the shift that has seen many and more states now requiring equine dentists to be veterinarians.
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This ^ and actually exactly this = same vet and equine specialty clinic !
Adding, I feel extremely Lucky to have both vet practices caring for my “treasures” !
I tip generously * each and every time they attend to my animals; in my barn and in their clinic ~
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I concur.
People whining about the price of farm calls though is IMO a major source of contention. And logically is not supporting the continuation of that service. I think it’s in general a really big problem.
General ranting, none of which is directed at you or anyone on this board. I’m up on my soapbox now.
My vet travels in a spendy, customized and fully equipped/stocked truck with at minimum one vet tech. Sometimes two or three. Undoubtedly, they are all working overtime, holidays, nights and weekends. Sorry folks that sh!t costs $$$$$. That $150 farm call is more than reasonable. You’re an hour away with your one pony at home? $150 is dirt cheap; I don’t care how many other farms they are visiting in your general area!
I read an article on some vet website regarding maintaining vets in the workforce. Vet concerns were 1. Student loans / wage and 2. Emotional burnout; animal suffering plus horrible human clients. I’m going to look and see if I can find it again.
So my logic is, we need farm calls. Emergency farm calls to boot! Vets need us to pay our bills with a smile. Even when the bills go up as they inevitably must. We also have a choice of which practices to support with our business. If that means I pay a few bucks more for routine care, I consider that paying towards securing the services I need for my horses.
I’m not directing my rantyness at you @beowulf in case I’m not being clear. I am 100% in agreement that we need mobile vets. Like @Texarkana pointed out, even if the horses are able to be shipped, travel arrangements are not a sure thing. We need farm calls and emergent, after hour service available in most areas (if one is horsekeeping in the remote wilderness that’s obviously a situation where it’s not possible)
end rant
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I have never understood that, though like you I’ve seen or heard people complain about paying the farm call. Most vets let you split that farm call with other clients. It’s the price you pay to have a professional come to you with their tools to do the job. It’s totally worth it to me.
On the other hand, I don’t necessarily vibe with (and you didn’t say this Lenapesadie, but I saw a theme of it up thread) the idea that farm visits are a revenue loss or time loss for a clinic. Farm call visits are a major source of revenue for vets. Having been involved in the book-keeping of a big vet practice here, those fees more than covered daily operations including stipends of staff. When a vet is traveling and visiting 10-15 clients a day it starts climbing north of thousands of dollars in fees alone a day.
Of course, there is also the wear and tear on the vehicle, the cost of portable diagnostic tools, etc – but farm call fees are a good source of revenue for a well run clinic. When a vet opts to no longer do them, they are likely doing so to focus/specialize (or downsize) rather than because they want to fit more clients into their schedule.
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Well I live in Podunkville. There are vets, but they are a ways away. Also, equine specialist vets who graduate at the top of their class do not often choose to practice in Podunkville. I knew that when I moved here. I’ve had access in the past to brilliant vets in racetrack practice, and it has spoiled me- my three favourate vets for the last 4 decades have all retired. I’m not too impressed with the local talent… but have used it on occasion for those necessary things. I do as much of my own work as possible, obviously, and have enough tech practice to have had some successes. I’ve been very fortunate to have met one local cow and pig vet, who I’ve used for the last few years for dentistry (he LIKES doing equine dentistry!!!), but he also has now retired. So I am in a spot now. I have access to local ranchers with a gun, when things are bad. Since they also are horsemen, they get here quick when that sort of emergency happens. It has happened.
A local horse owner had an emergency last winter. Snow, ice, -35C, and she has no trailer. No vet would or could attend immediately. But she was told on the phone that the “emergency call fee” (within the next couple days) would be between $1000 to $1200 before any service was added on top of that. Horse had probably fallen on the ice, and apparently had a concussion (that was just my guess), but may also have had other issues too. She found another horse owner who had oral banamine (on vet’s advice), and lent it to her. I only have injectable banamine for my own horses, but do not inject other people’s horses (obviously). The horse recovered. I advised that owner to keep oral banamine (for what it’s worth) on hand for use in emergencies. This is what it has come to in our area. I have not had teeth floated this year, and have a couple who are due. So I am vet shopping. I need a tame vet who will sell me what I need to be able to take care of my own horses as best as I can in this remote situation… this is a tall order.
One small animal clinic an hour away has a vet (who now owns the practice) that I have used for cats. He seems OK as a human being, and has been OK for cats. I haven’t tried him yet for horses, but apparently he also does horses. I don’t think they do farm calls, except emergency calls for the $1000 call fee. The “clinic” has no stalls, no facility, small animals only. I took a horse there once for stitches 12 years ago (with the previous vet who owned it), we did the stitching in the trailer- 30 stitches in the shoulder. Otherwise, it’s the parking lot among the parked cars at the strip mall. I don’t know how they do equine dentistry there, or if they do dentistry. Or if they do a decent job with dentistry. But I guess I’m gonna find out. The other veterinary options in the area have already horrified me to the point that I am reluctant to use them again.
An hour and a half in the opposite direction there is an equine clinic, and I have been there in the past. Some horrific experiences there too, and I’m not too keen to go back there, but you neva no. They did dentistry OK. I’d have to ship in there, and they do have stalls, but won’t let you use them… so your horse has to be tied to your horse trailer in the parking lot I guess- mine aren’t really that sort of horse. So I’d have to make a separate trip for each horse. Or, wait until they have a trip scheduled to this area, and split the call fee.
So that is the state of affairs here… not a lot of options. Not a lot of vets. Not too surprising, being semi remote. But it’s getting worse. Not a lot of people want to be horse vets it seems, too dangerous, not enough money in it. Charge what it is “worth” and horse owners who aren’t billionaires can’t afford to pay those bills. So then, the equine industry shrinks as only billionaires can afford to own horses. Then the equine industry dies, because it is “top heavy” and not sustainable. Looks like that is what is happening.
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I have hesitated to respond to this topic although I have strong feelings about it. I guess the feelings have outweighed the reluctance. Let me start by saying I have several close friends who are or were equine vets, and very, very good ones. They have each approached their practices in different ways as I will describe below. I am fully in support of professionals adjusting their practices to meet their personal needs and goals, but I know that I need a professional relationship with a vet who will understand that when I call and say “You are needed now” I mean it and they will concur when they see the situation themselves. I trust my vets, value their opinions, honesty and horsemanship. Perhaps I flatter myself that I believe that feeling is mutual.
Vet A has a practice that is entirely equine of very high caliber. She has grown the practice exponentially, keeps up with all the latest treatment and diagnostic modalities, raised a family and been extremely successful. Her practice now has 4 vets and she is still working as hard as ever, doing good as well as doing well. They have a treatment center at their office as well as make on site calls. Sad for me she is a plane flight away.
Vet B is a talented diagnostician, especially with lameness, as well as a practitioner of chiro and acupuncture. A devastating illness some years ago had her retire prematurely, but she has fought back and now sees patients as her limitations allow. She has an office only for the business part of work and travels to patients, although she sometimes uses my barn for ship ins from more distant areas and does not do emergency calls.
Vet C is another superstar with extensive post graduate specialized training. Hardworking, clear thinking, good at client and patient management but ran herself into the ground working in a practice that wouldn’t or couldn’t limit her workload. She damaged her back to the point where large animal work became impossible and has switched to small animals.
None of these three are my regular vets, although each was in her turn. They spoiled me terribly by respecting my questions, comments, and suggestions. My current vets know me well and also follow that model (bless them). They do routine stuff, which we try our best to aggregate to get them more “bang” for their trip. They are also very responsive when there’s an emergency, usually showing up within 30 min and often sooner if their proximity allows (and this was tested when the barn had three catastrophic injuries in one year). Finally, they work well with the other vets in the area and with my farrier. They have my credit card on file so they are payed promptly, I try to meet them for every visit even if not for my own horse, and I don’t harass them with nonsense.
Vets A, B and C have each discussed with me the difficulty of finding new associates who have real experience with horses: call it horse sense or horsemanship or whatever. They see applicants who have book knowledge but not that ability to read what the horse’s posture/ expression, etc. is saying. I’ve seen it too with a newish grad who was oblivious to the degree of pain the horse in front of her was exhibiting, something anyone who has been around horses they cared for would know on sight. That is disappointing and rather frightening to me.
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I wasn’t really speaking about your situation specifically but rather the concept that a client should get to demand how a vet runs his/her practice more broadly.
There are areas of the country where keeping a horse is really hard. It SUCKS. I am not unsympatic to that. Nor do I “blame” the owners when things go wrong. But if you don’t have service providers in the area, the choices are to make service providers want to come, to move, or to make some other arrangements. You can’t just demand that service providers service the area.
I know I am extremely lucky to live in “horse country” where everything is abundant. I almost moved. We looked at some parts of the country where I literally said “I could not keep horses to my standards in this place so if we moved here, I would not bring my horses.” I don’t blame people who make different decisions.
Our barn goes to a dude ranch in Montana. They are hours and hourse from any vet care. Guess what happens when there’s an emergency? The horse dies. It sucks. I get it. I don’t blame them as horse owners. It’s the reality of having horses where they’re located. The horses are their business. They would love to not lose any. They do. That’s just the reality of their location.
But at the end of the day you can’t demand that businesses come to you just because you wish they would. You can try to incentivize a business to expand to your area, usually with money, but at the end of the day you cannot demand or expect a business to come to you. You cannot expect a vet to “hire some help” or drive long distances in a way that is financially disadvantagous just because it’s “medicine” or “veterinary medicine.” People who live in remote places have to either make it worth a service provider’s while to come-- or they have to accept that there are plusses and minuses to living in remote/not well served areas and one of the minuses are that it’s hard (or impossible) to get certain service providers.
One solution I did not see mentioned here are scholarships to try to encourage local students to go to vet school and come back and practice in the area. “Home grown” horsemen/women may be more likely to want to service a not-well-served area and may be willing to alter their practice to suit the community’s needs.
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