Vet vs Trainer

[alibi_18]

[QUOTE=sweet17;8506784]
Never signed anything…no contract nothing…
I can understand if you don’t want my vet at the barn when another one is there. I get it but if I trailer her to another location, it shouldn’t be a big deal. Trainer doesn’t even know my vet. Never had this problem any where else I have been. Not sure why it is an issue?
Love the care at this barn and the training! Don’t want to move but if I can’t use my vet it may not work out… Not sure where I would go:( Wish I could have her at home![/QUOTE]

I would not even understand that. Vets don’t ‘‘own’’ barns or clients… There are 3 vets that come to the barn I board at. They know each other and are quite friendly. They are totaly civilized and actually, no one would mind coming for an emergency if the others couldn’t come.

What were the reasons given for not allowing your vet on the premise?

Would you be allowed to trailer out or not?

Is there a reason why you don’t want to use the barn’s vet?

[Jim_R]

[QUOTE=Marla 100;8506868]
I’ve found that if a barn owner (or trainer) is pushing boarders to use one particular vet, dentist or farrier it’s been because the BO or trainer is getting discounted or free services for their own horses from that practitioner.

If there’s nothing covering that in your boarding contract, you SHOULD be able to use anyone you want.[/QUOTE]
DW stopped doing work for a BO/ Trainer because she wanted basically a kick back.
Wanted every owner charged a full call fee, when she was there for multiple horses, then taken off her bill. Doing favors for your barns business is one thing but to charge owners for more than they should is another.

[findeight]

Never been in a barn that refused to allow a different vet in BUT only if that client made the appointment, sat around waiting and handled the horse. My barns were all closed Mondays and the regular vet came Mondays for routine worming, vaccinations, Coggins and those were required by the barn so everything was on the same schedule. It was a heck of a lot easier to just use the barn vet for those things, cheaper too.

Regular farrier came Mondays too. Others were welcome but same rules as personal vets. Never had a problem with it and nobody was getting any kickbacks.

[SuckerForHorses]

I cannot even fathom being told what vet that I could use for a horse that I own. My horse, my decision. If you don’t have a contract with the trainer that you will use her/the barn vet, tough shat for her, use your vet.

[sweet17]

I am so glad to hear I am not crazy for being totally astonished by this! I was beginning to think I was. I always make all my own appointments and hold meet greet whatever needs to be done. Not sure why I can’t use who I want. I am going to talk to my trainer and see why… Not sure if it’s “kick backs” or control or both or just something off the wall. I know a lot of others in the barn don’t know much as, they are non involved owners, leasing horses or just new to the whole thing. I’m not a trainer, nor a vet but that’s why I pick who fits my mare and I and pay them for those services.
Thank you for the reassurance!

[Texarkana]

I was at one barn that required boarders to use the farm vet and the farm farrier. They weren’t even good at their jobs. It was a nightmare. Never again.

If you are running a large barn, I can understand wanting to streamline the number of professionals you have to deal with. I also suppose if you are a serious competitor, competing at FEI levels or frequently getting drug tested, you might be particular about making sure the veterinary care is compliant. But aside from those few exceptions, there’s no logical reason to forbid a client from using their own vet, especially if they are willing to trailer out!

[ryansgirl]

My horse. My decision. My money. NO ONE tells me what vet I can and can’t use. NO ONE. I would NEVER board at such a place and that is one of many reasons I rough board at backyard barns. I control 100% of my horses welfare. NO exceptions.

[arapaloosa_lady]

I understand trainers having their horses in a wellness program with certain providers - this is intended to ensure that everyone stays up to date on routine wellness (vaccinations, farrier work, dentistry, etc.). Having a good working relationship with local horse professionals serves everyone well.

However, I do not understand refusing you to get a different vet to work up a lameness issue. There are many vets who are better at lameness than others. Or dentistry. Or colic. Everyone knows the basics, but each has their niche. Vets aren’t afraid to work with each other and bounce off ideas. I cannot think of a single reason for the trainer to forbid you hiring a lameness vet.

[arapaloosa_lady]

I understand trainers having their horses in a wellness program with certain providers - this is intended to ensure that everyone stays up to date on routine wellness (vaccinations, farrier work, dentistry, etc.). Having a good working relationship with local horse professionals serves everyone well.

However, I do not understand refusing you to get a different vet to work up a lameness issue. There are many vets who are better at lameness than others. Or dentistry. Or colic. Everyone knows the basics, but each has their niche. Vets aren’t afraid to work with each other and bounce off ideas. I cannot think of a single reason for the trainer to forbid you hiring a lameness vet.

[Flashymover]

My horses my choice in vets but that said I was open to trying my coaches vet and I ended happier with him than my original vet.

[yourcolorfuladdictio]

My mare is currently at a farm that has a “farm practice”. It just so happens to be my preferred vet’s practice, he’s an FEI vet and top lameness vet in the area. So sometimes it’s not a bad thing, but in your case it sounds like it is. Don’t be surprised if the trainer is evasive about why, if the trainer is doing something sketchy she probably won’t just come out and tell you.

[yellowbritches]

When I was running a trainer’s barn, we STRONGLY recommended are chosen practitioners (vets, farrier, dentist, etc), and had very good reasons for both why we chose the people we did (best of the best) and why we liked all our clients to use them (everyone on the same page, similar treatments for similar issues, staying in the loop with horses’ in training, etc). We made using our people more appealing by not charging to hold and doing the scheduling for the clients (clients were billed directly and always knew when the vet or whoever would be seeing their horse so they could be there if they wanted). We never said no to other vets, etc (with the exception of one certain vet who was a complete ass and bad at his job), but would charge or have the owner to the waiting around.

Gotta say, that worked well but our people were VERY good. The few times a client would come in and be determined to use their own person, they often quickly changed their minds when they saw the quality of our practitioners.

I NEVER saw a kick back, except for occasionally a few dollars off a dentist bill or something. But that was more because I would spend hours assisting them. It was more a thank you for my help than a kick back of any sort. The biggest benefit I got was some vets were a little lenient with how quickly I got my bill paid, knowing I worked for chump change.

I have also run barns where it was a free for all, and it sucked. I never knew who was coming and going, certain boarders seemed to have a herd of vets constantly dealing with their horses and their “treatments” were constantly changing. To top it off, because of my employer’s policies (and they didn’t work in the barn) we didn’t charge to bring in and hold for the dozens of different people in and out. So, I spent a good deal of my days schlepping horses in and out.

That was basically a lot of story to say forcing you to use their vet is bad. But a lot of trainers like to have consistency in their programs which is why there may be a chosen vet in the barn. Recommending and forcing are two different things.

[findeight]

I like referring to it as a “wellness program”. Sort of explains what the barn requires and in big show barns? It’s pretty common and easier to rely on the barn vet. Sometimes I think the lower end and more backyard places should do more with health requirements and arranging “vet days” to be sure worming, basic vaccinations and current Coggins are getting done to protect everybody. Knock out quite a few in a short time without tying up barn operations and staff and the savings from splitting that call charge can pay for some of the services.

IME, some who refuse to join in group vet visits because they “prefer their own vet” just don’t get them done and I see more barn owners requiring proof they are getting these things done by either barn vet or their own. No kickbacks just good health practice with large groups of horses, many in and out interacting with other groups, like at shows or trail rides.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=ryansgirl;8507463]
My horse. My decision. My money. NO ONE tells me what vet I can and can’t use. NO ONE. I would NEVER board at such a place and that is one of many reasons I rough board at backyard barns. I control 100% of my horses welfare. NO exceptions.[/QUOTE]

Me, too. And another thing: I have a greater interesting in keeping my horse sound that does my pro. After all, if my horse breaks, she can fill the stall with another horse… and I’m left holding the bag.

That said, my experience with trainers is that they find and hire the best vets, farriers, dentists etc. in their area. I can think of one place and one farrier that would not have been my pick. But the shoer was competent.

So while I wouldn’t submit to a pro who dictated my horse care professionals to me, I’d:

1. Know about that going in. “Do you care which vet/farrier I use?” is one of my questions asked during the initial barn visit. If they say yes and dictate the wrong person, I poker face it and take that under consideration.

2. I try to understand why they want the person they do. If it’s just about their convenience, we find a work-around or I walk. If they have a high opinion of some practitioner I don’t know, I’ll consider using him/her.

3. If the trainer dictates this kind of care AND has bad taste in practitioners, I have a “heads up” that their style/knowledge of horse management won’t work for me. I’d do well to board somewhere else since I’m old, pretty well-educated when it comes to horse care, and it won’t work for either side if, frankly, the pro knows less than I do about that stuff.

4. That said, I will establish an account and relationship with the barn vet. I want the BO/pro and her vet to be able to treat my horse if there’s an emergency. That vet can certainly do vaccinations and Coggins and such as it suits the BO. Any HO who alienates the barn vet is taking a risk in an emergency situation, IMO, and being an unnecessary dick in a business sense.

[fordtraktor]

Yes, it is a scheduling nightmare for a barn to take on a slew of different vets. And vets are often semi-decent about meeting amateurs with one horse who don’t live on farm on time, but when it comes to a farm, they usually just give me a day. At least the best ones tend to, IME, because they are very busy. “I will be there Thursday…” And I love my farm but it is hard to spend a lot of days doing that because I have to schedule my kids’ pickups from school around it, and sports, and everything to be there for your horse’s perhaps vet call. One barn vet makes all sorts of sense unless you hold for your own. Which I am fine with as long as you keep up to date on both vet and farrier. I require certain vaccines and regular farrier work, of course. And horses must get vet attention if they need it, it is in my contract. I am very reasonable about what that means but not going to let a horse suffer here or anything.

[2DogsFarm]

While I agree with mvp about 99%, IME a trainer might not be hiring Best.

When I moved to a different state & accepted the barn vet to treat my horses the first Orange Alert occurred when I asked her to examine a strange lump on my TB’s side - had not been there a week ago when we first moved in.
Her first suggestion was to surgically remove the lump, fine (diagnostically), except I told her he had been paste-wormed just before we moved.
As I was not comfortable with her immediate slash&burn approach, I did some research (this was pre-Google) and discovered a lump like his could have been a result of the worming.
Sure enough, whatever it was disappeared on its own in another week.

Alert went to Red status the night DH & I were the last ones in the barn - around 9P - & a boarder’s elderly mare got cast.
I sent him running to trainer’s onsite house & used the barn phone (pre-cell days) to call the vet…
And got her answering machine. NOT service, machine.
The 3 of us managed to get mare upright, but vet could not be reached until the next day.
That was when I called my old vet to ask if he knew anyone in the area.
Turns out he went to school with my current vet.
20yrs later I am still his client.

Trainer in this case was non-confrontational & did not argue with idiot BO who knew less than he did about horse care & management.
I was allowed to have my own vet, but every time he came he had to sign a logbook detailing which horses he treated and what treatments were given.
Which sort of makes sense, but the required vax schedule was consistent with a high traffic show or sales barn, which this was NOT.
TG, my vet went along with this nonsense.
Every time I called to make a vet appt, the vet’s office would say “Again?”
I was also not permitted to pasteworm my own horses, even though I offered to do it on their schedule, using the same product. Charge for barn staff doing the worming was $20, which was roughly twice the cost (then) of the most expensive wormer in the rotation.

At a previous (Show)barn I had my Hunter at the farrier was like the Vanderbilts “spoke only to God(trainer)”, no client was supposed to question his work or even speak to him.
Should have seen The Look I got when I asked he not add toe clips to my guy’s shoes.

There are limits.

[Weluvhaha]

Your horse, your choice

I boarded at a mixed-use barn where the trainer and vet were in cahoots. When one screwed up, the other covered. That was why they didn’t want any outsiders looking over their shoulder.

Would you let your school teacher tell you what pediatrician to use for your child? Of course not!

Dump trainers who use strong-arm tactics. A good vet doesn’t need them and a decent trainer wouldn’t use them.

[TequilaMockingbird]

I wouldn’t mind being required to use a specific vet for real basics, like fecal counts, vaccinations etc. Beyond that I use who I want and I wouldn’t board somewhere that tried to tell me otherwise.

I currently use the barn vet/practice for basics. It’s cheap and convenient. They come once a month to do basics for the whole barn and nobody pays a barn call fee. I use different vets for dental and sports medicine but I’m also out there to hold my horse for them.

[sandsarita]

Never again will I use a required vet that I have no knowledge about when I know and have vets in the area. I did this one time, and said mare is now joining the broodmare pen. Even though my preferred vet was only 10 miles from the barn and is nationally respected, she refused to have any of her other horses use him. Well, her vet said my mare, after falling in the crossties on concrete, just had swelling along the tendon and was fine even though she was doing weird things behind. Moved out of barn, used my vet - yeah, she was showing 3’6" working hunter on a broken (cracked, not complete) hind leg. And yes, this was one of the main supporting bones, not just the splint. Ad this led to other problems in the leg.

Now, my current trainer uses a vet I have a lot of respect for, have known and used since the 90s. If he has something he isn’t comfortable with (had a horse who had to be operated on recently), he referred to my home primary vet for the surgery. And my trainer is completely comfortable with him as well. And her farrier is someone I have known for ever, and have a ton of respect for (and approved by my retired farrier father). If I didn’t like him, there are two other farriers that come in the barn to choose from.

[Chief2]

Since there’s no contract and you pay all of the bills, you hire in the professionals of your choice. Shouldn’t be a problem. I agree, most of the time when someone is requiring boarders to use a particular vet or farrier they are receiving discounts and kickbacks from the professionals involved.